Synchronized spawn timer in CMM

(Ptiloui) #1

Now that the CMM is live to focus the game around more tactical gameplay and closer to the core of Dirty Bomb, why not synchronize spawn timer in CMM matchs ?
It offers more in-depth possible strategies and can prepare players for ranked matchs.

(znuund) #2

synchronize spawn timers? you mean every map the same spawn time or that attackers and defenders have the same spawn time?

(Ptiloui) #3

Attackers and Defenders share the same spawn timer.

(znuund) #4

Oh yeah, I do like that! Spawning at the same spawn time makes spawnkilling easier :slight_smile: But you can see anyway with the icons in the hud when they are spawning.

Shouldn’t the defending team have a longer spawn time than attackers?

(Ptiloui) #5

@znuund said:
Shouldn’t the defending team have a longer spawn time than attackers?

You will then favor attackers and the game would be harder to balance.

I don’t really understand why spawn timer are not already synced in every mode. Even in a case of spawn camping. Let’s say attackers are spawn camped, despite being full wiped, they at least kill one or two enemys. They then all spawn at the same time. Attackers are now a full team vs 1 or 2 less players (because those who died have to run from their own spawn), leaving more chance and time for attackers to break the spawn camp.

And if the CMM is focusing on 6v6 matches because “it fits better to the DB roots”, then timer should be synced because this is how it is set in ranked.

(znuund) #6

@Ptiloui said:
You will then favor attackers and the game would be harder to balance.

Many objectives are closer to the defenders spawn. So you basically have the unbalance on the defenders side already. Also if the defenders have a higher spawn time, it would make spawn camp even less rewarding.

Also, from a competitive point of view, different spawn times give more means to play tactical. If you get to know the spawn time from your enemy, you can try to get one or two on full spawn, respawn again and play with the number advantage. This is advantage would not be as big if the spawn times were synced, since the defender will spawn at the same time and won’t have to walk that long since the obj is closer to his spawn anyway. Of course the defending team can do that as well. It just gives more variety and randomness into the game, expanding the skill on one more level to master the game.
On the down side, different spawn times would make that you have some spawn times, which are very favorable to you but then also some spawn times which are very favorable to the other team.

I guess there is no right or wrong system here. It really depends on other factors like how fast a player can get back to his team. Also I have not enough ranked/official experience in this game to point out the flaws of the system.

Concerning spawn camp: I don’t think this is a problem of spawn times. It just is a problem of one team not valuing the gib of the enemy, so he can get revived again. I only get spawn camped, if my team is full of potatos. If there is one player more who knows what gibbing is, there is no spawn camp.

(Ptiloui) #7

@znuund said:
Also, from a competitive point of view, different spawn times give more means to play tactical. If you get to know the spawn time from your enemy, you can try to get one or two on full spawn, respawn again and play with the number advantage. This is advantage would not be as big if the spawn times were synced, since the defender will spawn at the same time and won’t have to walk that long since the obj is closer to his spawn anyway. Of course the defending team can do that as well. It just gives more variety and randomness into the game, expanding the skill on one more level to master the game.

What you are describing here is exactly what players in comp try to achieve each time they plan on their push while the spawn timers are synced : attackers pushing on the long spawn can get huge reward because, if succeed, it will take more times for defenders to get back on obj.

The only difference between synced or desync spawn timers is what you say by “expanding the skill on one more level to master the game” : people have to observe and calculate for each match the decal between their spawn timers and the ennemy’s one. But i assume this decal has always the same value. In games i tried to calculate it, it was always around 5-6 seconds.

(znuund) #8

@Ptiloui said:

In ET the normal spawn times were 20s attackers, 30s defenders. On some maps it was changed to 20/35, if it was pretty hard to win as attackers. But the initial spawn time was not the same for the same map. So you could not know the exact spawn time. The style of play really depended on the spawn time.

(Ptiloui) #9

I don’t remember well how ET was played but weren’t there more than 6 players per team ? I agree that the spawn times you’re suggesting would work well in 7v7 or 8v8 matchs, because there is somewhat a constant firefight. But in 6v6, and even more in 5v5, it works more per wave, instead of constant fight, and i don’t think longer spawn waves for one team (no matter which one) would improve balance nor gameplay.

(znuund) #10

@Ptiloui said:
2on2, 3on3, 5on5 (hate) and 6on6 (true ET) all had the same spawn times as far as I can remember.

(Ptiloui) #11

Balance apart, the only problem i see about different spawn timer is that one team can never know when the opposing one spawns, unless you keep count of every spawn waves during the entire match (or setting up out of the game an alarm that beeps for every ennemy spawn). And then, the strategy about pushing on ennemy long spawn is nearly impossible to plan.

(videoboy4000) #12

No, spawntimes were different in ET, most maps 20 sec (attackers) 30 sec (defenders) only frostbite was 30 sec for both teams.

(znuund) #13

@videoboy4000 said:
No, spawntimes were different in ET, most maps 20 sec (attackers) 30 sec (defenders) only frostbite was 30 sec for both teams.

beach had 35 sec for axis and there was also a map where allies had 25 sec spawn no?

Actually for the 20/30 secs it is not that hard to know the spawn time. You see when the enemy selfkills and then you know the exact time they respawn by looking at the clock. 60 sec is a multiple of 20 and 30 so it was easy to add either 20 and 40 or 30 to get the spawn time.
Only for the 35 or 25 sec spawns, there was a script needed. at least for me.

(Demolama) #14

@videoboy4000 said:
No, spawntimes were different in ET, most maps 20 sec (attackers) 30 sec (defenders) only frostbite was 30 sec for both teams.

Yup, all maps were different but on average the attackers had a 20 second respawn and the defenders had 30. They were also randomized upon the game start so that spawn times were never the same on the same map all the time. This helped to prevent spawn killing, which is so much easier when you know the exact time people spawn. Hence I could never see why having SW in dirty bomb be the same for both sides made any sense

(Ptiloui) #15

The only thing that worry me is that it seems easier to be killed in Dirty Bomb with all the actual abilities (explosive mostly) that weren’t in ET, especially those that can instagib. Waiting 20s to respawn because of a lost nade, rocket or mine already feels painful, don’t wanna think about waiting 30s :neutral: