This! There is a lot of truth in this. And I think you made some good examples to illustrate the point.
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;447059]So to sum it up the problem I see is that there are ideas being combined from various games that just can’t coexist unless heavily modified…but overall it’s less about the “best of this and the best of that” and more so about “does this game mechanic actually work with that game mechanic”.
[/QUOTE]
That’s a very valid point. I can’t really argue with that 
I haven’t gotten to play with actual people in a wile but these are the things that jump out to me…
Maps look great but don’t play that well. They may have evolved a lot since I last played.
Movement isn’t as fun as in ET. So take London Bridge which is VERY similar to gold rush. Part of the fun of gold rush was strafe jumping down the hill from allied second spawn. Strafe jumping was really fun and added a great skill to that game. London Bridge is a poor imitation of goldrush because the movement mechanics are different. There were so many cool things that you could do with strafe jumping if you pulled off the jump (Oasis wall jump).
The spawns are too quick. The detracts from the medic class and turns the game more into a grind fest imo. I have always lobbied for longer spawns because it think it required for this game type. I know you don’t want modern players to get tired of the spawn queue but I really feel attack and defend game types require a longer spawn time. I played the **** out of BC2 rush and I don’t think squad spawning worked well for that either although the maps were big enough that DB spawns wouldn’t work.
In ET and RTCW and even ETQW I always felt I had a good chance to win 1v1 and 1v2 battles if I could out aim the other guys. Weapon damage/spread tables were much simpler so this probably helped. In DB, the soldier gets more health and maybe the medic still has weaker weapons. I don’t get that same feeling of “I can win this battle.”
Health regeneration detracts from the medic class.
Seeing people go splat from airstrikes/arty.
EV escort maps are not fun. Not unless you speed up the ev which is what happened on most ET servers I played on.
I really hate the shotgun. I never want to play that class ever again.
Flag captures in ET were a lot more dynamic and gave more back and forth than standing in one place to capture a flag. Oasis and radar flag capture points come to mind.
Dyno defuses/arms create a lot of interesting drama. As a result map maker you don’t want plants/defused to be lotto, but they should be contested. A close save or plant gives me as a player a rewarding feeling that is addicting.
The iron sights are just sort of strong a armed into the game because other popular games have that mechanic. It doesn’t fit the speed of this game at all.
Personally not a big fan of the document carry mechanics where you can’t shoot. You’ve done a great job to make it easy to drop the item, but I still don’t think it works that way.
[QUOTE=EnderWiggin.DA.;447110]I haven’t gotten to play with actual people in a wile but these are the things that jump out to me…
Maps look great but don’t play that well. They may have evolved a lot since I last played.
Movement isn’t as fun as in ET. So take London Bridge which is VERY similar to gold rush. Part of the fun of gold rush was strafe jumping down the hill from allied second spawn. Strafe jumping was really fun and added a great skill to that game. London Bridge is a poor imitation of goldrush because the movement mechanics are different. There were so many cool things that you could do with strafe jumping if you pulled off the jump (Oasis wall jump).
The spawns are too quick. The detracts from the medic class and turns the game more into a grind fest imo. I have always lobbied for longer spawns because it think it required for this game type. I know you don’t want modern players to get tired of the spawn queue but I really feel attack and defend game types require a longer spawn time. I played the **** out of BC2 rush and I don’t think squad spawning worked well for that either although the maps were big enough that DB spawns wouldn’t work.
In ET and RTCW and even ETQW I always felt I had a good chance to win 1v1 and 1v2 battles if I could out aim the other guys. Weapon damage/spread tables were much simpler so this probably helped. In DB, the soldier gets more health and maybe the medic still has weaker weapons. I don’t get that same feeling of “I can win this battle.”
Health regeneration detracts from the medic class.
Seeing people go splat from airstrikes/arty.
EV escort maps are not fun. Not unless you speed up the ev which is what happened on most ET servers I played on.
I really hate the shotgun. I never want to play that class ever again.
Flag captures in ET were a lot more dynamic and gave more back and forth than standing in one place to capture a flag. Oasis and radar flag capture points come to mind.
Dyno defuses/arms create a lot of interesting drama. As a result map maker you don’t want plants/defused to be lotto, but they should be contested. A close save or plant gives me as a player a rewarding feeling that is addicting.
The iron sights are just sort of strong a armed into the game because other popular games have that mechanic. It doesn’t fit the speed of this game at all.
Personally not a big fan of the document carry mechanics where you can’t shoot. You’ve done a great job to make it easy to drop the item, but I still don’t think it works that way.[/QUOTE]
spawns should be getting changed there’s been enough feedback about it.
the gibs from arty wouldn’t be very high on the to do list, i dont think they will be to gory though to prevent the game from being banned in some places, i think the et gibs were bones and blood weren’t they? so maybe something along those lines because limbs and decapitation might be pushing it
the health regen, it would be nice to try out a patch where it was removed but at least the regen isn’t as bad as it used to be where you would regen during a fight
EV, I think they are trying out a speed increase for the ev atm on their test builds
It would be nice to have something equivalent to a flag, for some of the original maps they are so small the flag captures wouldn’t fit them to well, so maybe something for FB and draska to think about for Canary wharf and maps after it
the milk jugs also had plenty of feedback on them for them to be changed back to the old ways
True Hansi its in alpha stage but it are the Basics “movement freedom and Maps/gameplay” that make or break a game.
The overall feeling and smoothness of a game should be great and from there on you build further on.
I haven’t actually managed to enjoy a game on DB yet, much to my dismay. This is partly because of the low number of testers but also because of how the game feels. I realise this is against popular opinion, especially as most of the people on here are ET fans but it just feels off for me:
The aiming feels a little…loose, which is fine in certain games but when combined with the heavy movement (no bunnyhopping, clunky jumping etc) it doesn’t feel right.
Aiming down sights seems to be more of a disability than an aid considering the TTK and strafe speed of opponents, even at long range. It doesn’t feel like it belongs in DB and is actually misleading because the first thing I do at medium+ range is ADS out of habit but it’s not just pointless but a disadvantage.
Those three points, for me, that are the core of any FPS. Movement, aiming and killing. They just don’t fit well with each other at the moment on Dirty Bomb. It’s possible that despite not wanting another CoD clone game, I’ve grown accustomed to them and expect a certain amount of weight and feel to a game but for me to actually enjoy Dirty Bomb, I’d rather see it move more in that direction than the way it is just now. That or completely scrap certain attributes it has just now and go for the fast paced, twitch shooter that the aiming mechanics make me expect.
The aiming is known to be off, this is a major feedback the devs are already aware of. There is also a performance issue that affect the aiming to some extent.
For the movement it’s about the same ^^ But they said they will introduce trickjumps and when I see how much the game improves from one version to the other, I’m confident these core mechanics will be adjusted to fit the gamer’s expectations.
I have to say that I do miss the instant flag grab spawn captures that characterized the use of excellent timing and spawn waves in ET. Some of the best moment in ET came from capping a flag or securing an objective, and sneakiness was rewarded in ET whereas in the later games it seems to be discouraged (aka forcing the maps to advance objective by objective only. (Think sneaking in the fueldump and blowing before the bridge is built; jumping the wall on oasis, mining the second spawn in goldrush to get a jump on the Axis after capping the tank, etc)…
[QUOTE=RasteRayzeR;448045]The aiming is known to be off, this is a major feedback the devs are already aware of. There is also a performance issue that affect the aiming to some extent.
For the movement it’s about the same ^^ But they said they will introduce trickjumps and when I see how much the game improves from one version to the other, I’m confident these core mechanics will be adjusted to fit the gamer’s expectations.[/QUOTE]
I agree that the crosshairs are off for several guns or at least were in past updates.
The whole thing behind “trickjumps” is appealing, but what exactly makes a trickjump a trickjump when you don’t have anything that accelerates you in the air or through special movement? I mean, a crouch jump is a start, but now we’re talking about one static jump, as there are limiters that stop you from chaining jumps together. I think a huge key to improving jumping right now would to just make the base jump height higher. It is silly low. I should be able to jump on many of the things that are knee height now without having to crouch jump.
That being said, on the positive side, SD has made great improvements to the base movement, such as backpedal being the same speed as strafe/forwards.
empty server is the answer … I’m waiting the next one like a lot of players.
Playing L4D2 custom campaign to sustaining my fun ! ( who talk about an SDK ? )
Still finding ETQW much more enjoyable than DB, even with the awful lag issues it has. It seems a lot of others are in the same boat.
In order of importance to me. I become easily bored by or simply don’t enjoy the following;
Classes are okay for me, but I really would like to see more map roles for certain classes (side/main obj). I’m looking forward to testing the class “ultimates” which should boost the interest in that area; assuming they balance out well.
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;448953]Still finding ETQW much more enjoyable than DB, even with the awful lag issues it has. It seems a lot of others are in the same boat.
In order of importance to me. I become easily bored by or simply don’t enjoy the following;
Classes are okay for me, but I really would like to see more map roles for certain classes (side/main obj). I’m looking forward to testing the class “ultimates” which should boost the interest in that area; assuming they balance out well.[/QUOTE]
yep what can I say … I’m just 100% agree !
Maps are little and claustrophobic for the 3 first maps, camden is a bit bigger but not so much, I found the side obj for the most part just useless except side door and lift protection in WC. For the rest like the side route and metro gates in Canary Warf, that’s 2 perfect example of side obj not really effective. (1. to short and difficult to counter by the defenders to be balanced, 2. open bar objective)
if I make the count of side objectives available :
White chapel :
Canary Warf :
Waterloo :
Camden
London bridge :
No really interesting capturable spawn points …
No more command post …
No more access ramp or bridge building taking some time …
No sneaking door in disguise …
etc …
That’s make maximum 3 sides objectives by maps, and that’s or for an engie or “open bar” objective.
Don’t you think there is a problem ? Where is the classes base gameplay we like ?
It’s not a problem to play a maps without side obj, but that’s really important to make some to have a really effective and interesting deep gameplay for each classes, on both Main and side obj. (medics and fields ops don’t have anything to do with side or main obj ! that’ s support classes) Remove the PDA from Medics and fields ops hands ! give it to 1 class only !
Need more freedom, lot of stuff you can’t jump on, lot of invisible wall, to much control … 1 big frustration example are all this little corners you think you can hide and nope there is an invisible wall build by chuck testa himself … to much restrictions.
For the moment it’s more a bad wolf ET with a “COD like” ROF and TTK, as all the Korean F2P.
One of the side objectives I really like and I think has potential is that little wall lifting thing on what I think is called white chapel. It lifts a small wall to protect defenders on the bridge with the turret gun.
I’d like to see that used to help cover attackers while they try to complete an objective. It would give good long range cover forcing the defenders to get up close. But without the cover it would make it very difficult to complete the objective since they’d be easy fodder from long range attackers that have a clear vantage from many points. So the side objective would be difficult to accomplish but very helpful for cutting off a major advantage the defenders have.
Also as for maps… we really don’t have that defend the fortress map that many of the other games have. At least none that have that same feeling. Lets have a map that has no EV escort and is all about blowing up walls (different routes too) to get into a base to blow up some kinda reactor or key military object. And give it a large variety of ranges to deal with. And spawn areas. Give us the option to choose where our spawn is too.
For me, DB’s “fun” factor really takes a hit with the exclusion of these features. I’ve said it in a few other threads that most of the classic ET maps had at least 1-2 of these, with some having all three.
There needs to be more strategic choices across all maps in DB. I would love to see the option of side objectives like covie hacking or “sneaking” through a door to attack the next objective, forcing the defenders to either hold their ground at main, fall back, or split their forces. Giving the defenders an option to spawn back would also be needed in this case.
Radar offered so many choices - cap flag (flag battles are always exciting), plant main, plant side, sneak side, sneak main.
Oasis - massive flag battles that sometimes had the announcer declaring the “winner” long after the actual capture - it was chaotic and exciting. Grabbing a enemy uniform and sneaking through before the wall blew to catch the defending team off guard, or a lone engineer jumping the wall and planting, forcing a fall back and taking pressure off the first objective.
Frostbite - trick jump or blow back gate, blow main, side, cap flag (rtcw)
Battery - Plant at rear gate to make the front push easier, build cp, covert grab a uni a sneak through. Defense capable of recapturing flag to force a beach spawn and take the pressure off.
Dirty Bombs maps offer little variety and too few options, making the objectives very linear. Defense can just all pile up in the same area and there is less of an emphasis on rotating because the objectives are all centrally located/not spread out enough.
The objective runs also need some reworking - being able to shoot while carrying is a good start, but the layout needs to be reworked. I would like to test a longer doc run on London Bridge from the Lab to towards the end of the map. The main point of the EV would be to blow the doors open and that would be it.
tl;dr:
i would think maybe they implement command post ,but would be a little bit pointless as long spawnpoints are still changing and spawnpoints are not fix
I would like to suggest that we have an ET day and an ETQW day against the devs to best show them the bloodsport of flag captures, sneakiness and multiple objectives.
Maybe not all SD people were around in the glory days of ET, and I have no idea if they still play PUGs in the office. In any case, the spirit of fun is what we are trying to capture, and those games were the best, IMO. A few rounds of oasis, fueldump, and supplydepot ought to shake things up.
I know that we are not trying to build ET2 here with DB, but it is still insightful the feel all of the best elements of ET and ETQW first hand…
disguise in W:ET was my absolute favorite feature in any FPS I ever played, as an engi, I liked a covop who would get me through the doors
I really miss the Wolf ET doors ! that was really part of the gameplay.
With less elements in wolf ET you got more than twice the fun of DB.
Now all got to be ubber simple like press “F” button to win ! Are people more stupid than few years ago ?
Did we need to buy an xbox controller to play this game ?
> Brink ghost is still there …