Sustaining 'fun'


(acQu) #21

Sustaining the ‘fun’? I think this question can only be answered from a subjective point of view. So how would this be more fun for me? I would say that the upcoming ladder system might keep you ingame for a bit longer. Gives you a little goal to play for.

As for current state of the game and in trying to stay with the current concept of close quarter infantry gameplay i would say: maps, options, movement, atmosphere.

Maps need more alternate routes, spread objectives, meaningful sideobjectives and need to be bigger and less cloustrophobic and should reduce the ‘token-of-exposure’ concept i came up with (token of exposure basically means that there are too many points in the map, that when you are standing at that point you are way too exposed to enemy players aka exposure level on some points in the map is simply way too high, even if you know how to properly move) + the objectives should be fundamentally reworked and be made more interactive and interesting and be connected to the theme/story/setting of DB in a way so that it makes it exciting.

Options need to be more, but not spam. Simply stuff to keep you occupied if you are not a frag-type of player. DB very much seems frag-focused. You can decide to play for objectives as an alternative. But what else? In W:ET the huge variety of custom maps played and important role of keeping me interested. Also the objectives are problematic, as explained above in ‘maps’.

Movement. What can i say, i think this has been discussed to death already. Even if the movement system will not be what i want it to be, i at least want slowdowns removed and someone who really opens up W:ET and DB at the same time to tweak all the values neccessary so that the basic character movement feels up-to-par and more fun (, as an example not being able to sprint while moving sidewards feels not good when at the same time you try to promote a tracking gameplay, because with tracking you need to strafe effectively and be able to dodge shots by going shortly under whatever cover you can temporarily find in a fighting situation; another example is that transition of movement direction (left to right for example) is too slow and not responsive enough; again my advice would be to just open W:ET side by side with DB in windowed mode and nail it).

Atmosphere: theme/story/setting, i want some ‘good enough’ reason to fight a conflict.

These things fixed, especially the mapdesign, would probably keep me interested. Would say at first i want bigger maps, then i want non-linear paths and side-routes and lots of interesting objectives. But that would be probably too much of a pub mapdesign. I see that the maps in its current form are especially good for comp, so in that regard the mapdesign might turn out well. But then again, maybe not so much, because there is hardly anything surprising to do, since the paths are just linear and i might imagine if matches will get shoutcasted that this will be a major problem.


(scre4m.) #22

I get bored by the game quite fast tbh. . so my top 6 of reason for not enjoying the game as it is are: ( 1 is most important … down to 6 least important)

1.performance issues
2.map design offers view special things.It’s too much straightforward. Such as EV-driving on LB is bobobo-boooring
-> more stuff like thoase hack-able gangways on canarywharf, or elevators ladders, ways to surprise the enemy
3. lack of teamplay in this game. For me it became a little better with removing ammo stations. Now meds need a Fops, and if the fops is fine and delivers ammo he will receive health instead. More of this pls.
4. Only 1 loadout slot. -> Would raise my interest a lot if I had more possibilities with loadout assignment. soldier needs some toys ( grenade launcher e.g… atm soli is boring and I feel like my fps drop due to his MG’s muzzleflash, dafuq)
5. due to point 1 I am forced to play on low res. hurts my eyes.
6. empty servers is a reason as well


(Volcano) #23

you say most what are the other things


(BomBaKlaK) #24

The biggest issue I saw in all these comment is the map design, to linear, tiny, narrow, controlled, and objective not work as intended.
I really think Maps make 80% of the game and here that’s just not work right now, most of the maps look like Brink maps and that’s not the best choice I think. I dont blame the map designers they did a great job, but like said before this is not CS little tiny maps ! we need more space, more side routes, more side obj, and more freedom.


(spookify) #25

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;446148]-

  • Level 39 stacking vs 0 level players … a shuffle on every new map can be really nice. (except on match server)[/QUOTE]

HA! This is so dumb! My buddy is a level 3 and never plays and he can crush level 39’s! Just because you are level 39’s doesnt mean you are good.


(BomBaKlaK) #26

your right that was just an example to talk about stacking but that’s not a fact in most cases, lot of levels 0 don’t even know the maps or classes … and are just lost. that’s normal they just starting. but 6x level 0 vs 6x Level 39 this is just not fair at all … and turn to a rapping party, so levels 0 just left the game and level 39 left the game to cause they don’t have anyone to play with …


(acQu) #27

I think so too about the mapdesign. The other major issue for me is the theme, which too restricting to explore ideas. Theme is modern, radioactivity, London, i would already be satisfied if modern could be exchanged by ‘techy’ or anything more futuristic.

Again for mapdesgin, i think the maps are mainly designed for fast comp stopwatch, and there they might fill in a good purpose. Problem from my perspective is that they are all meatgrinder-maps, with almost all stuff happening on that one path one must follow to do the objective (and along that one path the ‘tokens of exposure’ (as i call them now i think :)) are making it pretty unenjoyable and imo contribute mostly to that feeling of ‘random fragfest’).

The big question for me is ‘will this be interesting to watch?’, because as i predict this will mainly result in a succession of frags and along these lines something like the EV escorting without anything possibly being suprising because of the linear paths.


(Anti) #28

Try to stick to one or two posts in the thread folks, to give others a chance to reply before it just becomes a chat between 2-3 of you. Makes it way easier for me to track what is going on :smiley:


(Loffy) #29

I play two or more maps and when I leave it is because I need a rest. Game will be enjoyable/have longevity when more characters, weapons and gadgets are available at the same time. The game’s design is great. Some spawn times & locations need to be adjusted of course, and perhaps there is a need to change some minor layout things in some maps (small things, like add/remove door, window, passage, corridor and similar routes). Small team sizes causes me not to find sustained fun right now. 3 versus 4 is terrible for the overall morale. There is less Pb (lead) in the air (i.e. less action) and there might be issues with balance. Finally, yes, there might be bugs around, some even talk about ‘netcode’, but none of that affects my level of perceived fun.

Keep up the good work.


(spookify) #30

I agree with almost all of these comments.

TTK - ROF = Headshot reward
Movement
Need a spawn time and spawn waves like ET / RTCW
I do not play OBJ because I have no idea what bottoms pick stuff up and plant because they are not one of my main keys so why learn…

Make medic padded more crisp and larger rev area on the body. Make it worth while for a medic to rev. No point right now because I cant escape.

Even if all they fixs are made and we think the game feels great we are still not going to have any players. It feels just like a pro server like ET Box where all you go in there to do is blow of stream from work and face roll.

As for making me want to play the game for hours on end I have no idea what you can do… Its a shooter that can be very stressful at times and needs a good balance. ET and RTCW had no really goals other then to face roll and play objectives with no real reward. I can say won thing i did play BF3 the same way i played ET and RTCW. I just wanted to face roll and could care less about winning and losing. However having all the different guns and breakout of stats for every gun made me want to keep improving and platinum every gun. See Below and go to weapons:
http://bf3stats.com/stats_pc/spookify4http://

I hate unlocking things but I love stats with rewards!

I would also make the rewards hard! 10,000 kills is nothing in BF3 for each gun and I could do that in 45 hours per gun… DB would be much faster…

COD the reward was to paint your gun with a logo or get an extra slot. That is sort of dumb and I hate to unlock stuff but it kept me playing.

Maybe a reward for 500,000th head shot…
Super Reward for 10,000,000 Head shot… ( I would have to do the math to see if that is possible haha!) In ET could get 100 hs in 12 minute round
5 round is an hour * 100 = 500 a day… It would take 20,000 days haha!
Yeah little to high… But I feel 1,000,000 is a great number for a super reward! 3 to 5 head shots per kill… It would take at least 1 year.

Stuff like that keeps me playing, and also to release stress and face roll.


(Seanza) #31

I’m in the fortunate position to already have some friends playing in the alpha, but that doesn’t mean if you were considering giving us some extra invites that I’d say no. I still have some friends who are saying “I know you can’t tell us anything, but can you at least try to get us in?” - people who I work with and will be running the events with me once the game is public.

I actually enjoy the game right now and wouldn’t it’s not fun as such, but it sure does get a little boring after an hour or 2. So here’s what I think will make the game easier to play for longer times;

  • Spawntimes (Defence 30s / Attack 20s)
    Right now the spawns feel like TDM, a mode which I personally don’t like too much unless I’m just looking for a bit of casual gaming.

  • Medic revives

  1. When a medic revives, there needs to be a short spawnshield on the revived person
  2. Right now there is absolutely no incentive for medics to revive because spawntimes are so short, and 8 times out of 10, the medic takes too much damage and ends up getting killed
  • Medpacks
    Stop the re-gen please, or speed it up and still re-gen when taking some hits. I personally prefer instant blocks of health when dropping medpacks.

  • Maps
    I love the maps right now, don’t get me wrong, but they’ve remained mostly unchanged for the last few weeks now and the lack of variety is putting some people off. Another block map would be awesome, if you’ve got one in the making.

  • EV
    The beast is slow.


(iwound) #32

mouse movement.
never got it set right since the beginning. im always chasing and cant pick out someone unless they run straight at me. i spray and pray most of the time in near fights.it doesn’t help that i cant clearly see enemies due to blending in with background. i shoot at below red player i.d’s not at the player.

ironsight.
i usually like using this in other games but here again its a mouse issue sensitivity isn’t right plus the recoil is huge off just one shot make it unusable unless again enemies kindly run directly at you.

getting killed instantly as i get shot. i dont mind a sniper doing it because they cant always use it. i dont mind a nade or a mine doing it because again there are only certain situations for it. but coming round a corner and dieing in less than a second from a supposedly weaker weapon is pain. but too many times i come behind someone open fire but loose the fight. wtf imo it has to be network issues as there is an extreme imbalance between different players, some say its an fps issue or ping.

i do have severe performance issues so i know some problems are due to this like the extreme lag spikes at the begging of a map. massive stutter in close combat plus others.

spawn waves.
the constant respawn is horrible, it was horrible when i first complained about it and its still horrible. i dont understand why you think casual players will like this. and never had. i need my little micro breaks, death is useful. see spawn wave thread. i believe its out in paperback.

carryables.
its mainly a placement issue as i know your changing the mechanics. and really only CW is a main issue now amongst its many others like hack, hack,hack, hack,hack, hack,hack, hack, thats klingon for more varied objectives please.
i think the carryable needs auto pick up and transmit drop off.

player movement.
too floaty, no sense of weight. lack of body feedback from environment like sound. did i hit hard there, did i bump into someone (oh no i cant)

Fog.
fog over everything, thats impossible and it doesnt help gameplay.

crispness of textures.
it could be a performance issue but im not sure. but all the colours in the game look very washed out, bland and boring. yet you show these videos of vibrant yellow cda and crisp brick etc etc so what happened, i feel like im in the cheap version of the game. again i know some post processes are changing hopefully it will give the levels more vibrancy. and hopefully the team distinction will be better as thats a big turn off atm. if you cant see players clearly you wont sell any more unless they have good weapons.

ev
ev is boring, its an et mechanic. non controllable. why not any health makes it move but the more health the faster it goes.

lack of upgrades. no xp progression which is this games main point. its tough without it.

no c4 plant anywhere. we like it , you dont. so lets call the whole thing off.

zero achievement motivation.
i couldnt care less what xp i get for something. i want to know which of my team got us that objective. iv given lots of details about this before so i wont repeat myself.

screen full of useless info i dont need. and too large.

lack of class specific objectives.

pressing f for everything, why not press f to shoot gun at player.
instead give me the tools for the job but let me jump out of using it to fight quickly.

whitechapel i like, i just dont like playing it twice on the run. and it seems others. a lot of players seem to leave at the begining of round two. by this time its tedious.

lack of ammo. i keep wanting to pick up a dead players gun. where is it? the fops ammo he drops off at spawn is a good start but im forever running out and typically theres no ammo about. i get so sad i suicide. a dead mans gun is the best option i believe.

being ignored by medics constantly. cant you punish them for ignoring injured players. deduct xp with floaty icon drifting off showing they are loosing xp unless they revive that player lying at their feet. cries of the dieing getting louder and louder.
prevent players from selecting medic for none reviving activity.

re map sizes space etc - i like all maps size space etc and objectives ARE getting better. i trust sd will get there in the end. all objectives have their own issues. and will play better with spawn waves.

lack of slots/players.
no fun if there’s 6 or less on a server but server with 12/16 slots can fill up and others are empty. more slots if performance gets better maybe.

lack of maps.
in general theres a lack of variety especially as its alpha and were locked into loadouts. more maps would help.

having to balance teams out constantly due to players leaving. maybe have auto balance using last in first move rule.

waterloo last changes are quite boring to play.

in general variety and performance.


(rookie1) #33

Objectives are all in the same patterns …c4,carry,hack
would like to see innovative ways and new types of maps routes.
somewhere I was talking about ‘the battle for switch’ that would force the opposing team to use a longer path.
Things like that …new stuff!
…diversity and possible reversal of situations !!!


(woll3) #34

[QUOTE=Anti;446143]
I’d love to know what you guys would like to see to make the game more enjoyable and have more longevity.[/QUOTE]

Well, movement is a bit limited in my opinion, especially that reloading + sprintig isnt possible anymore drains much of the speed, especially when your on the attacking side, also that the spread during jumping got increased isnt something im very fond of, it has given some infights “that little bit extra” to make them interesting, not to mention that it is the fastest way around a corner.

Also the Spawntimes are a big problem, it often isnt possible to set a time at all and it comes down to the count of objectives done, which shouldnt be the case, not to mention that individual skill isnt rewarded at all, there is no point in fragging people when they are back before my team cant even see the objective. I would increase the defenders spawntime a bit (20 Seconds) at first and see how it plays out, small tweaks can have a big impact.

Next are the maps themselves, the only one i really dislike is LB, because of reasons already mentioned, the others are quite fine, but arent the same quality as in previous titles(Brink doesnt count it isnt a game). I would really like to see more open terrain, like in Camden, and also maps with more green, for example something around the Victoria Memorial, if i remember right it would even be in the contaminated Zone, like battling from Belgrave Square Garden to the University of Notre Dame or something, there is just so much in that Area.:slight_smile:

Just give me more space and more plants, and im happy, im just so sick of all Infantrybased Games with cramped maps. Long story short, more mapvariety is needed, the 2-3 Route thing through tunnels/cramped ways, gets a bit boring after a while.

Next thing is that the Character Debug function is gone, but i guess thats what the Point “Barracks” in the launccher is for, just hoping it comes soon.

Weapon Balance is also a bit of Problem, but that has been discussed already.

And altough the technical Problems will probably be fixed later, they are just keeping me away from playing atm, things like being unable to hit british people at all, its like their hitbox is 1.5 meters aaway from the model or something.


(Dragonji) #35

I totally agree with acQu’s points. Also, I’d like to mention this great post which exactly describes why DB is not that fun (at least to me).

I can only add a few things that annoy me as well:

[ul]
[li]Unstable FPS - I could even play with stable 50 FPS but situations where my frames spike from 10 to 50 make me angry.[/li][li]Not much equipment, at the moment we’ve got only SMGs and assault rifles.[/li][li]Not many players.[/li][li]Short respawn times.[/li][li]No possibility to spectate teammates when waiting for the next respawn.[/li][li]My screen is spammed by sh!tload of indicators, I’d like to have a possibility to move everything to minimap.[/li][li]We’ve got only 1 team which have different skins for both sides.[/li][li]No possibility to use vchat while being dead.[/li][/ul]


(Ruben0s) #36

DB needs some refreshing gameplay, something unique, something special. For now it feels like dumbed down version of ET. And no, I don’t want a clone of ET,I want a new game with new gameplay, that stands out from the rest in terms of gameplay ( like bioshock does with the story). But that seems impossible as they have chosen for this modern style shooter and it somehow has to be realistic.


(Protekt1) #37

Mainly 2 things…

framerate performance and server population…

I know performance is about to get some tweaks in the coming patches and I hope my rig will then be able to stay well above 60fps all the time. That is about a 2x jump from what I currently get which is about 30-40fps.

As far as server population, it may be smart for you guys to invite some of the elite by random. I think just giving us friend invites may work but may be perceived negatively by the guys who did spend money on the game. On the other hand, inviting everyone from elite may be too much (I assume you guys would know best as you have access to this information.

Can you guys add a server watch tool on the website so we can check server populations without having to load the launcher? That’d be a minor convenience.

=====

There is one other thing I want to touch on briefly. But I currently get the feeling that the game needs more unique twists than it currently has. While it may be a fresh and new experience to many players when it finally releases, I get the feeling that some people are getting bored because they’re not experiencing it as a brand new experience. Its like the first time you experience a game like this you love it (RTCW/W:ET) and after you get diminishing returns for each time you revisit the experience. Perhaps as the game changes in the coming months it will be more unique from past experiences and I hope so.


(pulley) #38

for me just add spawn waves! It really feels like playing Teamdeathmatch atm… I think the game will then be more enjoyable. After that fix the EV and the carrying objectives.
EV: should move on its own. Should get faster with more Teammate surrounding
Carrying Obj. Should just be able to pick them up without pressing a stupid button…


(mortis) #39

My only gripe at the moment is the slow EV movement, and perhaps the carryable objectives need a longer run. There are no wide open maps as of yet (think Fueldump, not so much the sprawling maps of ETQW). I still use ET and ETQW as examples of a great game because they were great games. TF2 is a game that is extremely popular, but just doesn’t do it for me. Neither does the undisputed king of FPS games, Counterstrike. So I admit my bias, but nevertheless I don’t want to give up hope on “smart shooter” games that intersperse strategic play with the occasional firefight. That is what I look for in a game.

I would play DB more, but I don’t even get back from work until 6 PM PDT and I don’t have the kids in bed until 8 PM PDT. Sadly, my real life obligations do prevent me from being available more often. And lately my work has been keeping me from getting home on time, so I’ve had even less time than usual. It’s not for a lack of interest in DB, just a shortage of hours in the day…


(ailmanki) #40

If it is somehow possible, give some of the alpha testers the tools to create maps for DirtyBomb - under NDA.
I do not know how maps are made for DB, I suppose its done with UDK. As such it might be possible that a mapper makes a map in UDK, without anything from SD… using placeholders for certain things - which then will have to be replaced by SD before it gets on the server …
Already some blockout maps from the alpha mappers would be awesome, and would surely give new insights.

Pressing F to plant dyna or todo something specific, breaks the flow of the game for me. I cannot run towards the barrier - feeling save - and holding my c4 up - a glorious moment - before I get shot down… nope. I have to run towards it and press the magic F button.
On the other hand, I don’t have an issue with the mechanic of a magic Button, but I would prefer the manual way. I can imagine some players will want to connect there gamepad to DirtyBomb - and there that magic button could come in handy. So at best let the player choose, either magic F button for tools, or you have to select that tool and press mouse 1.
The only way this would make sense as it is right now, if you could shoot while pressing F.

Create 2 different server types. One for the “pro” players. And one for the “casual” players. While anyone can join any server.
This would be very easy todo, just rename the current servers. This could be used till a more sophisticated system with shuffle and playerratings is in place.
Actually I would say the stopwatch is the pro one already

Give the models a less depressing face, there is already a topic about that - not going into detail here. But just saying a smile provokes a smile :slight_smile:

Give the player models abilities to express themself (on to of v* mechanics). Just a few short ideas : win dance, wink with the hand, russian polka dance move, - some of this stuff should make you vulnereable … could be fun - but probably useless extra, has to be well done, else its once seen - and never used again.

Spec teammates while dead

Make the players around 10-20% smaller. Maybe we could test that for a week or so - the designers not like that idea I guess.
Cause of the crowded feeling.

I believe in ET it was accepted that the tank and the truck are slow. But we still joke about the truck driver… Dirty Bomb has a very realistic setting I think, as such that EV makes no sense. Why is it driving so slow, there seems to be no reason at all for that. And that is kinda frustrating. It breaks the immersion… ET was a lot less realistic - as such this was no problem I guess - or less of a problem.

One thing I have to say which I like alot, the map design itself is great. There is the problem of flow in the map - having mostly one main route. Camdem is a little different there. Where there is more then one “main” route… e.g. 50/50. But besides of that, I really like it. Almost no invisible walls, Interesting placemarkes you can see from far. And for example the area around the EV lift is a great combat place IMHO!

and this:

[QUOTE=ailmanki;445230]- Either always tag enemies or never. It is distracting to get a name above the enemy, but only under certain circumstances.

  • Tone down the colors, brighten up .
    People pay for that. They invest in monitors… seriously.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofVlh8efZ40

  • I only played Camdem due to having 15-30fps. Seems like my enemy had better fps, in any case it was hard to get out of spawn which is frustrating. Just because the enemy knows exactly where you spawn, he can wait at several spots, and he can even see you spawn. If we would at least spawn in second floor and jump down from there, to first floor or outside window… would be so much better.
    And also it does not seem like a spawnarea at all. just getting spawned somewhere out in the street.
    I saw the video about the kills not being smoothly all over the place. Well you guys had reasons to place the spawns where they had been. You cannot just move them around to satisfy statistics.[/QUOTE]

The other thing for me is, that I do not have access to my gaming PC - lol its in a container waiting for me to find a bigger home - and so from time to time I started DirtyBomb in the hope my Laptop could run it, and I maybe played for 20mins, till I got frustrated with my low fps… But now I should play more often as I think I fixed that.