Suggestions for team setup in comp environment

(Bangtastic) #1

Everything I have written here is for the sake of competitive play.

One thing that bothers me atm is the fact that teams can be stacked with the same class/chars.
Some of you dont mind, but for me it has the unbalanced touch to it.

How can Dirty Bomb prevent multiple clones of one char in a team?

Now everybody can do objectives but we have still got 5 slots as 5 chars to pick.
The question arises if at some point the slot number is being reduced, when the devs are still convinced by agnostic objective style.

Tbh it kinda sounds good, but Im also aware of the issues this change brings.
Example: 3 Slots - Most played classes in comp either: Assault, Medic, Fops, or Medic, Fops, Engineer; Reduced slots may also mean reduced variety where players have to choose their top notch line up to favor a win.

The best thing I can imagine is that ONE char per team is allowed. SD wants to focus on chars anyways. There cant be clones in one team, for me it contradicts the char focus in some sense.
You still have the freedom to pick the same classes, but every char can only be picked once as individual. This might include some balance factor, there cant be a überteam with all being self reviving medics for example!

That means even if a team goes for one class, they still play as different chars and have to use their different abilities.

So far my theory, but Im afraid we never will know how it turns out until we got enough chars to make it happen and 5 slots seem to be too much for this approach.

Some decisions have to be made for comp play in order to prevent, spammy and messy gameplay.

Note: I consider 5v5 (easier for lans) or 6v6 being the most popular

(slanir) #2

I don’t like the idea of capping the amount of classes/characters you can have on a team. It’s just an artificial hinderance for teams that want to run certain combinations of characters or classes.

Also it will be a hassle for pub play when people can’t play their “FAVORITE CHARACTER :(”

(Volcano) #3

[QUOTE=slanir;462127]I don’t like the idea of capping the amount of classes/characters you can have on a team. It’s just an artificial hindrance for teams that want to run certain combinations of characters or classes.

Also it will be a hassle for pub play when people can’t play their “FAVORITE CHARACTER :(”[/QUOTE]

i think we’re more looking towards the comp side of things, which is why there should be separate settings for pub and comp

(Rex) #4

So your suggestion is simply “Highlander” mode which even got tested already and didn’t turn out well. Apart from that this mode will rather stay a niche in the leagues.
Now you need to explain more precisely what’s so bad about having multiple classes in one team? Balance issues?

(MikeyTWolf) #5

>Nobody reading into this at all
Class limits probably bad but there are easily more characters to choose from than there are players in a single 5v5 game (3x5 = 15)

Splash Damage have halfway accidentally made a Dota FPS.
And considering plans for in-round XP/levels I think from the videos you’ve mentioned? Yes, this could very well work.

Also less spam of any one ability is always apreciated.
However, in-game barracks menu is ESSENTIAL for this.

(Bangtastic) #6

It would be kinda a waste to introduce lots of chars and in the end only the same roster of chars is played. If i would be a dev, i would be sad.

Teams have to make up their mind who they are taking in order to achieve task A, B C D and how I will support my team.

Also it might be more appealing for spectators to watch if you see all the different abilities in a different way. 5 man arty strike can get quite boring. Also teams have to learn how to combine them, not only doing spam stuff.

Right now it will be played like this: Goal: plant C4
How you do that, preferably Medic and assault only (with or without global objectives) probably means footlose and dazzler combo

Escort EV - medic, engineer only -> rev train; probably footlose and crocodile dundee
Stop EV - probably fops and medic. and so on. probably arty or pyro and footloose

Just imagine 5 engies playing with sticky bombs or mines; 5 fraggers spamming frag nades, 5 fops spamming airstrikes. Im not that kind of player who will ever accept this way to play a game. The fact that you exploit certain strengths of a char in a overdoing manner isnt the way it should be.

We are talking about a skill based game. In my opinion a certain skill is also to perfect the play with more than one char! Teams will have to cope with this as well not only in game but also pre game.

MikeyTWolf mentioned the Tier 1-2-3 System, when we finally got to play it, it will make even more sense. Many ppl have forgotten that we still dont play the whole game, its just the first half. There will be kinda a Skill tree to choose from during matches.

Does it create now more depth or opposite? Suggestions are always welcome :smiley:

(slanir) #7

But if the enemy team decides to stack one character they will also have weak spots for your team to abuse. I think gameplay will be more dynamic if clans can build their own unique strategies, not limited by character caps.

(MikeyTWolf) #8

In an FPS, this flat out isn’t true.
There is no “max firing range” like in a strategy, no “HP pool” no “Mana pool” and cooldowns are often inconsequential, especially when you stack multiple characters (By the time #1’s air strike is off cooldown #5 has yet to use theirs for example)

If it was any other genre but an FPS you might have a point, however since everyone plays mostly the same core gameplay wise with bullets and hitscan, not having this feature just make it more boring to spectate.

(h2o) #9

HP should not regenerate until medic will not revive/heal you

(MikeyTWolf) #10

A very useful comment I’m sure

(slanir) #11

[QUOTE=MikeyTWolf;462207]In an FPS, this flat out isn’t true.
There is no “max firing range” like in a strategy, no “HP pool” no “Mana pool” and cooldowns are often inconsequential, especially when you stack multiple characters (By the time #1’s air strike is off cooldown #5 has yet to use theirs for example)

If it was any other genre but an FPS you might have a point, however since everyone plays mostly the same core gameplay wise with bullets and hitscan, not having this feature just make it more boring to spectate.[/QUOTE]

Yes but if you stack a team of fops like in your example you will not have any other tools at your disposal like revives, medpacks, frag grenades, MGs, mines and so on.

(MikeyTWolf) #12

And that’s a problem… how?
It’s not like TF2 where you have ubercharges or anything.

(slanir) #13

Then how is it a problem to have 5 fops? it’s not like it’s the uncounterable godlike strategy of free victories. My point is that your team setup should be up to the players of the team and not be predetermined by the game. If you want to run 5 fops go ahead, i think your enemies will be able to deal with it in their way.

(MikeyTWolf) #14

>Undeniably the best rifle in the game
>Ability to clear out an entire area with little warning, almost instantly destroying an EV
>Ability to drop ammo

The only thing they can’t do is revive, but why bother when anyone who survives an assault wave will have all their teammates, health and ammo back?

(INF3RN0) #15

What ultimately will promote a non forced class build, is equality among the classes. This means every class has a 50/50 chance of killing the other most of the time, as well as offering equally appealing roles to the team. People will ultimately play what they think best suits the situation and that’s really good. Some of the issues I see currently are (1) soldier’s weapon is too easy to play (2) recon’s weapon is too niche to play and the class role is unappealing (3) engineer is too defensive oriented.

There’s nothing wrong with only using certain classes, as long as your just picking that load out because it fits your play style or strategy and not because it is mathematically best. People ultimately play what they ‘frag best with’ most of the time, but that doesn’t make a class the best fragger necessarily nor does it make it the best class to play. If every class offers something useful, but not required then you can literally play any way that you like. For example you can run a ton of medics and rely on med chaining, but then your going to eventually run out of ammo if you can’t push fast enough. Furthermore you may find that you need a soldier’s grenade ability to break a choke point or his weaponry to disable the EV, or perhaps you need a recon to make up for the medic’s lack of range. This is what makes the class choices really interesting, and I think ultimately people should feel like they could try any combination of things understanding the pros and cons of their decisions and how it pertains to the specific situation they are in. I for one am really hoping to find such an improvement in the class development in DB that was so rigid in ET and was so dependent on the vehicle game in ETQW.