Suggestion on merc changes and rework


(phobiatic) #1

First of all I like to start with giving a thank you to the devs for making such a nice game with fluid gameplay and good movement based game style with a nice pool of different unique mercs. But for me I got burned out of dirty bomb after a while. This is not because I got bored because it being a shooter, but because I encounter always the same issue after a very long Beta state and I feel not rewarded anymore after most matches.

They should rework how mercs work in general. Below are some of my suggestions, they might not be the best but feel some of them can use tweaks:

  • Add delay to proxy to prevent her from shooting the mine instantly after placing it.
  • Add spread to rhino minigun, it shouldn’t be able to kill people at 15m with no effort.
  • Lower sniper damage on body, reward them for HS, remove the option to 2shot mercs with body hits.
  • Give thunder the option to select between an EMP or an blind granade.
  • Increase delay on nader granade launcher the more granades they shoot without a direct hit. Example: default CD is 5seconds to get the next ammo, if they shoot 1 nade and its a direct hit they get -1sec CD on their next ammo. If that nade is not a direct hit it adds +1 sec CD. This way it adds a penalty for spamming the nades randomly and rewards aiming for direct hits. On a 3 hit volley and all 3 are a dirrect hit you have only 2sec cd to your next ammo, but if all 3 are no direct hits you have a 8sec CD as punishment.
  • Make fletcher sticky nades do more dirrect damage, but alot less splash damage. It rewards getting that sticky on that enemy instead of spamming 3 and let the splash damage handle the work.
  • Add a turn speed for bushwacker his turret. Now it’s just way too powerfull with the speed up card.
  • Give Kira a bigger laser beam but slower. If you not a fast merc there is no way you can escape the laser.
  • Give shotgun a longer delay between shots and make the drop off damage alot larger beyon its max damage range. Shotgun is a close combat weapon, but even if it does 40dmg at 8m, if you give it less then 500ms between shots it still can do 80dmg(kill an aura, spark, proxy etc) from that distance in 1sec.

Merc rework suggestion: All the merc reward progression cumulatively adds up during respawns. There should maybe be a progression bar on the ability to see how far the players are untill they get rewarded with another charge / ammo / healthing pool for their ability. the player can decide when they want to receive the reward if it progression bar is full. This will provide with unique situations during rounds.

Objective mercs: Limit the mercs ability, rewards on succesfull doing objectives.

  • Limit proxy mines to 1 and reward a new one after a succesfull kill. reward an extra one if repaired x amount of an objective or planted a bomb successfully.
  • Limit fletcher to 4 sticky bombs, reward x amount of sticky bombs if repaired x amount of an objective or planted a bomb successfully.
  • Limit bushwacker to 1 turret, reward an extra turret if he repaired x amount of an objective or planted a bomb successfully.

Fire support: Limit the use of ability, reward on succesfully applying the ability.

  • Limit kira to 1 Laser strike, Arty to 2 arty strikes, skyhammer to 1 airstrike, Limit Stoker to 1 molotove. reward an extra ability charge if it does x amount of damage to an objective or succesfully disable an objective.

Medics: Limit medics to a health pool that they can max use to heal. Reward on succesfully heal and revive friendly players. Medics can be rewarded a total bonus of x healing pool.

  • Limit sparks and sawbonez total heal pool to a maximum of x health by use of health packs, recover x amount to healing pool on direct healing. Reward sawbonez x amount of healing pool if he revived x amount of friendly players with a total charge of x amount(charge time of the defibs). Rewards sparks with the ability of their revive gun to revive x amount of players within x meter at once.
  • Limit aura total heal pool to a maximum of x health by use of Health station. recover the used amount of healing pool if the heal station is picked up and moved x meters. Reward an extra healing station(with its own heal pool) if he revived x amount of friendly players with a total charge of x amount(charge time of the defibs).
  • Limit phoenix total heal pool to a maximum of x health by use of healing pulse. Reward x amount of healing pool if he healed x amount of health when friendly player is below x amout of health. Reward an extra resurrect if he succesfully revived x amount of friendly players.

Assault: Limit the amount of ammo, reward on succesfull kills.

  • Limit nader granate launcher ammo to x, get an extra ammo if its a direct hit. Rewards x amount of ammo on destroying of an objective or killed x amount of enemy players.
  • Limit thunder to 1 blind / EMP nade, reward with an extra nade if succesfull disabled x amount of device if it is an EMP or if it successfull blinded x players if its a blind nade.
  • Limit Rhino to draw his Minigun x times, reward an extra charge if he successfull kills x mercs with the minigun.
  • Limit fragger to x frag nades, reward an extra frage nade on x direct kills.
    Recon: Limit the amount of devices to 1. Reward an extra device if the device assisted the team.
  • Limit vasilli and Aimee to 1 device, reward an extra device if it assisted to kill x players.
  • Limit Redeye to 1 smoke, reward an extra smoke if he succesfully kills x enemy players while in smoke.
  • Limit Phantom to 1 cloak charge, reward an extra charge on succesfully killing x enemy player while cloaked.

This can provide aura with 2 heal stations, sparks with the ability to aoe revive a team, arty with 2 extra arty strikes for that extra push etc. The rewards should be balanced out so they don’t fill up too quickly during rounds. But it will reward people doing their specific role alot more often since it actually rewards them with more power during the round other then just extra points at the end of a round.

This is just a thought and not dirrectly a real concept. But this way people have to be alot more carefull when they use their merc abilities and will work together to apply those abilities together. Now people spam their abilities untill they are on CD and use their gun untill it’s back off CD. Players should be rewarded for using their abilities at the right time and not be rewarded for spamming it the second its off cooldown.


(BlackboltLW) #2

Apart of everything written

Minigun has spread

Try holding the trigger


(AlbinMatt) #3

I like a lot of the suggestions here, but please… don’t nerf Kushwanker, hesweak enough as it is…


(Sefuh_FR) #4

For the first suggestions :

  • yes
  • No…plz no…
  • why not
  • increased delay ok / direct hit reward ok , but add 1sec delay only if no damage at all from the nade
  • just add delay and people will stop spamming them…
  • no…bushwacker is already the worst engineer and his turret isn’t so powerful
  • kira laser is easy to avoid if you pay attention…and while she manages to move the laser in your direction she can’t shoot
  • Shotguns don’t need nerf

A reward system for every merc is a good idea but i think every merc should be awarded according to a x amount of score :

Repair / Defuse / plant score points counting x1.5 for engineers
Airstrike kills / Ev Damage score points counting 1x5 for Fire Support
Kills / Dmg score points counting x1.5 for Assaults
Heal / Revive score points counting x1.5 for Medic


(Press E) #5

there’s a lot here that I could talk about, but for the most part the basic idea seems to be: “only reward godly aim, nerf everything else. Then try to force each class of merc to do their goal by rewarding them with stuff that lets them do things besides their goal”

But well, the thing is, players already get rewarded for doing their jobs or having accurate aim. If a medic revives a lot, then they do better in the long run. If a sniper hits a lot of headshots, they’ll get more kills. You don’t need to nerf everything that isn’t their exact purpose to force people into filling their roles, because the main draw of this game is merc versatility.
This isn’t Overwatch, where characters have more or less once purpose and one purpose only, it’s meant to be more free and casual. Players can play any playstyle they want, which is why I like DB.

Rewarding players like you suggested would unnecessarily complicate the game too. It’s meant to be simple, not some kind of MMO. Being able to predict enemies, knowing their cooldowns and abilities, is part of the game. Changing this would entirely remove that aspect. Besides, all this would do would be to make godlike players even more godlike, while new players still can’t get a foothold.

TL;DR, DB is meant to be a simple game where all players have a chance. Skillful players are already rewarded for preforming well, rewarding them more would just imbalance things and drive players away who weren’t as familiar to the game.

I have over 1000 hours in this game, and for the most part I believe mercs and guns are fine. Some people may prefer other types of games, but most people here like DB as it is without majorly changing it’s biggest features.


(everlovestruck) #6

aura with 2 heal stations, sparks with the ability to aoe revive a team, arty with 2 extra arty strikes for that extra push etc.

Wow. You’ve gone WAY too far, don’t you see?


(GatoCommodore) #7

stopped reading after

Add delay to proxy to prevent her from shooting the mine instantly after placing it.


(Pyjama_Slam) #8
  • Lower sniper damage on body, reward them for HS, remove the option to 2shot mercs with body hits.

You have a great misconception on the role of a sniper in Dirty Bomb.
Weakening enemies significantly to help your team deal with them should be his main purpose.

When facing decent players you get only 1 or 2 shots before they are behind cover again. Being in need of more shots due to your “new spongy bullets” or lack of skill makes you completely useless as a sniper.

A Moa does 75 body dmg, Aura has 80 hp. If you want Aura to live after 2 body shots you need a 50% nerf. Excluding the weakest mercs and taking the 100 hp and up would mean a 33% nerf. That’s not what you call a rework.


(phobiatic) #9

@everlovestruck said:

aura with 2 heal stations, sparks with the ability to aoe revive a team, arty with 2 extra arty strikes for that extra push etc.

Wow. You’ve gone WAY too far, don’t you see?

This maybe only happen once every round, or maybe twice if it’s a 10min+ round. This is not that every respawn they have 2 heal stations etc. It’s an one time reward that you can use on demand once you forfilled the requirements.

@Pyjama_Slam said:

  • Lower sniper damage on body, reward them for HS, remove the option to 2shot mercs with body hits.

You have a great misconception on the role of a sniper in Dirty Bomb.
Weakening enemies significantly to help your team deal with them should be his main purpose.

I’ve over 7k kills with 79% accuracy with Fel-ix alone, I’m aware how a sniper works and how powerfull they can be in the right hands. A decent sniper can easy hold back a few players with nice placed headshots, but you see more often that people go for body shots since its ALOT eassier to just 1x body shot and finish off with handgun since the high dmg curve. Surely when you talking about 79dmg from Fel-ix, all you need is just 1 handgun hit or a random bullet and low hp mercs are dead. feel it should be 60-65dmg on body so people still have time to react other then die the second a sniper hit them. Add in Aimee her snitch(25% bonus dmg on tagged target) and you looking at 90+ dmg body hits from a sniper.

@GatoCommodore said:
stopped reading after

Add delay to proxy to prevent her from shooting the mine instantly after placing it.

Thanks for sharing your opinion without reading the whole topic. But here is my thought. Because rushing into a group throw a mine and instantly detonate it doing 180 dmg up to 5m without giving the enemy any chance to servive is the way she is designed? No, she’s an objective specialist and her job is not be at the front line throwing mines and shooting them, but tacticly place them so she can forfill her objective. It is not that now people use Proxy as suicide mine rusher that this is how she was designed.

@STARRYSOCK said:
TL;DR, DB is meant to be a simple game where all players have a chance. Skillful players are already rewarded for preforming well, rewarding them more would just imbalance things and drive players away who weren’t as familiar to the game.

Altho it might be a simple shooter and you are corrent about the skillfull players. People don’t have a problem with a learning curve. Look how populair MOBA games are, it’s all about the learning curve and understanding what is going on. Now we only loosing people because they lost interest in the game or are burned out from it. This is mostly because every round is just the same and noting unique happends other then maybe that quad kill you made.

@BlackboltLW said:
Apart of everything written

Minigun has spread

Try holding the trigger

I’ve played Rhino a short time(I’m no favor of the merc). But for me it was way too easy to pick off enemies that are 10 meter away from me. Control your fire with small bursts instead of holding it and you have nearly no spread at all. Add the No2 perk and you can easy kill a low hp merc within a second. Most die before they even realize you are shooting them because of the client side detection and low tickrate servers are not the best options for a 900rpm+ minigun.


(Sorotia) #10

Synopsis of the post: NERF EVERYTHING!

Why not limit how many mags a merc can carry too, judged by how much they kill?

Oooh ooohh ooohhh or I know…why not just take away everyones special abilities and everyone just carries a primary, secondary, and melee weapon…so DB can be like every other generic shooter!


(Sefuh_FR) #11

@phobiatic said:
I’ve played Rhino a short time(I’m no favor of the merc). But for me it was way too easy to pick off enemies that are 10 meter away from me. Control your fire with small bursts instead of holding it and you have nearly no spread at all. Add the No2 perk and you can easy kill a low hp merc within a second. Most die before they even realize you are shooting them because of the client side detection and low tickrate servers are not the best options for a 900rpm+ minigun.

I advise you to play Rhino against skilled players( lvl 30+ )… , you will understand why is rhino one of the less played merc by high lvl players.


(pumpkinmeerkat) #12

Mechanics that add inconsistency are bad for a competitive shooter.

TTK across the board has decreased for the last two years so I agree that mercs, weapons, and abilities that are strong at the moment should be nerfed rather than the weaker ones buffed. Burst rifles, health stations, Thunder, Fletcher, and bolt actions are where I would start. Hopeful we’ll see balance updates once Turtle has settled into the game.


(phobiatic) #13

@pumpkinmeerkat said:
Mechanics that add inconsistency are bad for a competitive shooter.

TTK across the board has decreased for the last two years so I agree that mercs, weapons, and abilities that are strong at the moment should be nerfed rather than the weaker ones buffed. Burst rifles, health stations, Thunder, Fletcher, and bolt actions are where I would start. Hopeful we’ll see balance updates once Turtle has settled into the game.

Finally someone understanding what I’m suggesting. The game had ALOT of love because it was like “Enemy Territory”. Where TTK were higher then most shooter and it was very fun to play. Now we getting closer and closer to current shooter games where TTK is less then a second. Feel the game is loosing its soul with every buff they give mercs.


(Press E) #14

@phobiatic said:
Altho it might be a simple shooter and you are corrent about the skillfull players. People don’t have a problem with a learning curve. Look how populair MOBA games are, it’s all about the learning curve and understanding what is going on. Now we only loosing people because they lost interest in the game or are burned out from it. This is mostly because every round is just the same and noting unique happends other then maybe that quad kill you made.

…this isn’t a MOBA though. The people who actually like this game, and FPS games like it, don’t want to play a MOBA.

If you don’t like the game, that’s fine. You don’t have to play it, you can go to something else, or even suggest a few actual reworks.
However, that does NOT mean you should suggest the game’s entire genre be changed because you prefer MOBA games over FPS games. Why is that? Because this is an FPS game, and the people who do play it actually like it, regardless of minor stuff that could be improved.
You know what else is popular right now? 2D style indie platformer games. Suggesting that this game should become a MOBA is as ridiculous as suggesting it should become a 2D platformer game.

Besides, your suggestions wouldn’t even make matches more “unique”, they’d just make it easier for skillful players to ruin matches of low level players.

TL;DR, liking certain genres of games over others isn’t bad. What is bad is thinking that a game should change it’s genre, even though people love it as it is, to something that would suit you better. This is not a MOBA. Want a MOBA? Go back to Overwatch and stop trying to turn DB into one.


(Verticules) #15

The damage numbers on the PDP, Fel-ix, and MOA are fine, given they caught me with my pants down. The issue is they have their entire health pool as time to return fire w/o a negative effect. It is far to common to get headshot after catching snipers off guard. Just slap em’ with a solid dose of hit punch and at least I would be happy :slight_smile:


(LifeupOmega) #16

@BlackboltLW said:
Apart of everything written

Minigun has spread

Try holding the trigger

You’re playing Rhino wrong if you’re not tap firing people from across the map with the minigun.


(Eox) #17

@phobiatic said:

  • Make fletcher sticky nades do more dirrect damage, but alot less splash damage. It rewards getting that sticky on that enemy instead of spamming 3 and let the splash damage handle the work.

This is reciepe for a disaster. Fletcher’s damage is already a major subject of complaints in the game. One hit killing Phoenix and mercs below 100 hp is already extremely good, and Fletcher is by far the best engineer. Let’s not push that further.


(GatoCommodore) #18

@phobiatic

Thanks for sharing your opinion without reading the whole topic. But here is my thought. >Because rushing into a group throw a mine and instantly detonate it doing 180 dmg up to >5m without giving the enemy any chance to servive is the way she is designed? No, she’s an >objective specialist and her job is not be at the front line throwing mines and shooting >them, but tacticly place them so she can forfill her objective. It is not that now people use >Proxy as suicide mine rusher that this is how she was designed.

this is dirty bomb, anyone can sh*t on anybody regardless of their class.

this is not Sniperfield 1 or Cowadoody mind you. In dirty bomb even medics gets best weapons and kills as efficient as assault. She was designed to Wreck people on close range and deny passage with the mine, Being an engineer is a second ability. Just like fletcher.

Also, if you havent notice, her mine is so buggy that placing the mine only guarantee 80% of killing caused by a mix of sound, wall trip and other bugs. Not to mention people can see RED GLOWING ON THE FLOOR.

there is a reason why proxy arent used in Competitive scenes.