[Suggestion/Discussion] Loadouts and maybe better way to execute them


(bontsa) #1

Just a suggestion I’d like to throw out there, as have quite a lot of people before me, and hopefully a discussion inducer of the subject if all and any of you have ideas regarding the matter at hand.

Why would this be necessary? Judging from reactions at forums, in-game and personal discussions, current loadout system does bring both lucky happy moments but feelings of getting ripped off and disappointment seem to be more prevalent. Random factor is there, but it is there for a reason too as it’s a way for developer to gain more profits, when not everything is super easily accessible for free. Not anyone in their sane minds should think Cobalts and event cards should be obtainable left and right, soon making them not only dime in a dozen but also making no reason to buy Elite cases and such products which are necessity for developers. However with current implementation system also smacks paying customers in the face quite hard, as they too can have little guarantee of what they will be getting from their purchase. Let alone having real lack of rerolling…Ye, I think that’s about enough, we all know how flawed it feels.

Instead of trying to desperately come up with events with seemingly “everyone has a chance for free, buying stuff increases chances”- mentality I feel SD & Nexon combo should rethink how they build loadouts. What I propose, is separating visual looks of a loadout and functionality, the weapons and augments, into 2 separate instances. So default, lead, iron, bronze, silver, gold, cobalt, event skins, would be a “layer” one adds to set of weapons and augments. This merge could be done permament in order to people still having to grind or buy in order to “gain everything” so to speak, to get skins for multiple loadouts. Functional loadouts could be sold from in-game store like Bronzes are now, only difference being they’d be with default skin now. Some poor designer has worked for the original, native look of the mercs yet none of those skins are barely ever seen in-game :wink: With such change, probabilities of i.e Gold drops could be lowered from cases too since it wouldn’t feel so unfair anymore. As would you to be obtain even one skin, you can add it to any loadout you feel! So it’s not anymore both gamble if you get nice skin AND usable loadout, but only gamble of the first.

Perhaps 2 types of cases could be dropping for free; ones dropping functional loadouts and ones dropping skins, or they would be to drop from same cases. Elite case- type products would now have higher chances of giving (or skins like Cobalt could be bought right off the bat without case foolery) desireable skins that you can then merge with weapon & augment combination of your choice. No longer would player feel like being smacked in the face with a wet, sizeable northern-spawn fish, when cobalt does drop but has absolutely loathsome utility for them. Sure, it was never developer’s intentions to have “bad” loadouts to begin with and this is why we are about to see 2nd generation loadouts soon [tm], but still we have personal preferences and changes in meta happening, which will still give same result (some loadouts barely seeing the light of day) in the future even if issue of horrendous loadouts is addressed.

To have such system, not only could profit be made by straight selling skins (not giving a gameplay advantage obviously, as opposed how selling full loadouts now would), selling skin cases etc, would this allow for more, much more skins to be made in the future without making players feel like they have to “redo” their collection any time new stuff comes up. This could also be done so that player skin would be separated from weapon skin, making even more buyable / grindable products to be made. Want to inspect that smexy Swiss Gold weapon bling but outshine your opponents with Fragment garments? Could be possible with this, plus add more personal customisation options. From dev side this would just mean pure $$ doshdosh $$ as these would obviously be buyable from store either straight up, or cases, without the fear of getting something crappy tagged along with, making least in my hopes stuff much more appealing to be bought from store.

If anything, system could be either made so that skins are also merc specific rather than “get gold, merge to anything”- style. This way one would still be able to pick their poison, choose what they want to use and merge skin to their valued loadout.

Do you have different suggestion? Want to criticize / discuss / improve idea above? Post ahoy!


(bontsa) #2

Best of all? This would change nothing currently built and obtained, as everything players have in their inventory now would remain the same, “pre-merged” loadouts would I say.


(gg2ez) #3

The separation of cosmetics and loadouts has been discussed before and if I remember correctly: SD still doesn’t give a f*ck :neutral:


(Yes) #4

Yes, I’m pretty sure most people want this, it’s such a shame SD and/or Nexon don’t give a shit.


(Cletus_VanDamme) #5

I’d love a system where we could craft loadout cards, using existing cards in our inventory.

Example - I have a CW Sparks 382 card that I rarely, if ever use.

I also have a Silver Bushwacker C41 card that I always use, it’s great.

For a credit fee, I’d love to combine the two. Apply the CW camo / skin to the Bushwacker C41 card.


(OmaGretel) #6

The idea isn’t even bad, I like it too actually, but there is one fundamental problem with it. A system like this would require that SD provides a bunch of really cool merc and weapon skins, that are actually worth grinding/spending money for. But considering the speed at which they have produced content in the past, I don’t think this system would be worth it from their point of view, simply because there is not much for us to spend our money on.


(bontsa) #7

To be honest, even with the current ones there are quite a few choises to start with. I’m completely with you on the fact that SD will need to pump up more cosmetic content too, if they want to keep that side of community happy that is onto those. However with the current system, we see again at this ReV event, that since theres absolutely loathsome amount of RNG involved in not only getting a loadout in the first place, theres even smaller chance of getting something that player actually values.

With changes to the system, maybe like described here maybe in some completely other, unthought way, SD would get more leeway in creating these events too. Then people could get the desired skin and ability to implement it into loadout they enjoy. This also would offer SD more room in the future (if gunskins and playerskins are separated) to play and toy around with all kinds of cosmetics, as people wouldn’t feel the need to start all over any time something fancy pops up.

On semi related note, heck I would even use current lead on certain characters as it looks like Desert camo :>


(MisterBadmin) #8

I would HAPPILY eat my shoes if the loadout=skin system was ditched, but there are some major design issues I see in the changeover.
There are two ways I can see the split-loadout system working, a “Forge a Card” system and an “Equip a Skin” system.
Forge a Card (FaC) would be closer to the current system, take a base card (B81 Arty) and throw a skin card (Gold Swiss) on it, with the resulting card being permanent or separable , possibly for a price.
Equip a Skin (EaS) would probably require less back-end effort. Rather than having one default loadout for each merc, have 9 (or however many Gen1 + new Gen2 is). When equipping a merc, it asks to select loadout first, then skin.
In either of these, a decision would have to be made about merc-skin limitations. Take for example one of my Containment War cards for Fletcher, the H63. Can I only put that CW skin on Fletcher? Can I put it on Aimee or Thunder (Neither has CW skins)? Assuming EaS, can I apply that SINGLE CW skin to multiple mercs? (Alternative phrasing: Can I use 1 copy of a skin on my entire squad?) If I can equip all my mercs with that single skin, then anyone who bought cases trying to get a specific loadout (myself included) could (and probably would) feel cheated.
The fairest way to implement this (in either system) would be to limit cosmetic cards to a single merc. Take the H63 Fletcher from earlier. I could only apply that to Fletcher loadouts. At that point, anyone who has multiple event cards for the same merc (me, again) would understandably feel cheated. Also, anyone who never got the merc-skin combo they wanted (me, once again, CW Proxy being the big one) is then screwed, whereas someone that got the merc-skin combo, but not loadout, (me, once more) is now the happiest.
Then comes the Gen1 vs Gen2 question. What determines the generation? The base card? The skin? Are there restricitions to which generations can get which skins? I don’t see a fair and sensible way to handle that, especially with cards that changed (H63 to H61 for example).
Both of these would be very confusing to new players, probably more so than the current system. DB struggles to teach new players in general, especially in regards to the loadout system. Explaining either of these is no small feat.
There’s also the backend to consider. I’m not a developer, but I’d assume attempting either of these could break a few things to everything.
That’s all I can think of for now, been a little distracted while writing. Might edit later.


(bontsa) #9

Before anyone hops in to call him necroing, I take responsibility of that, we discussed about exactly this subject back in the Discord. And to be honest, I feel this discussion is “ageless” as long as loadout system is the same anti-player style as we are having currently ^^’


(doxjq) #10

As I’ve explained in other threads on the same topic, how do you come to this conclusion?

What if people purposely collect cobalts and have spent many real life dollars and millions of in game credits collecting specific cobalts like I have? If the current system was ditched, I lose all the value off all of my cobalts, as they now become only a loadout.

Take two people for example. Let’s say two players have the same loadout cards but in different rarities. Player 1 has a cobalt for every merc in the game. Player 2 has the exact same loadouts, but only one of them is cobalt and the rest are bronze. Under the new system you propose, both players inventories are now the same value. They both have the cobalt skin, and 19 loadouts.

I know it sounds stupid to some people, but there are plenty of us who have spent mega bucks grinding for specific cards, and a new system exactly like you said strips all value off everything we had to grind for.

Your system makes sense, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a way better idea than the current system 100%, but I think it’s just too late to change the whole system. If something like this does come into play it’s a huge kick in the gut for collectors and I would personally demand some kind of compensation for having items I spent hundreds of dollars to obtain stripped from me.


(bontsa) #11

@Dox Glad to see your insight, allow me to re-phrase myself a little better as that was rather old text you were citing and I hadn’t said it clearly in very understandable way. I hope I’m not missing something else from your text now, as I’m reading it through goddamn tired and in downturning intoxication, so apologies beforehand and here’s TL;DR at starters:

I think the misunderstandment was here: in this suggestion, only 1 Cobalt skin could be merged one-time-only with one performance card, not so that you need to only obtain 1 Cobalt skin and you can use it at all and any performance cards ever.

Aaaand onto the Wall-of-Text :sweat_smile:

[quote=“Dox;187403”]
What if people purposely collect cobalts and have spent many real life dollars and millions of in game credits collecting specific cobalts like I have? If the current system was ditched, I lose all the value off all of my cobalts, as they now become only a loadout.[/quote]

To be more precise, there are 2 ways how my idea could be executed. (certainly not mine originally but who knows who has put it up in the air first, so I hopefully don’t sound arrogant when referring to it as “my” idea from now on for sake of simplicity)

  1. existing loadouts as of now are “pre-merged”, so they already contain both skin card and performance card, which would simply be the same situation as of now for those cards. Useless stays useless, good stay good and anything that comes after can be merged at will and most plausibly with a credit cost.

  2. existing loadouts are split into skin- and performance-cards. So for example Cobalt Fragment 383 Sparks turns into Cobalt Fragment Sparks and Sparks 383 (default skin) cards.

Now here’s the part that worries anyone that has spent money on loadouts, right? That now anyone at everywhere could simply use this Cobalt Fragment Sparks on any and all Sparks loadouts they have, for example. Worst of all change it on after each match even?

The way I think my idea, no and absolutely not. They could use this Sparks skin card only on one Sparks loadout, let it be 383 or anything else they have in their inventory. And if they decide to apply skin to this Sparks 383, it’s now forever stuck on that. If they would like another Sparks in Cobalt, they’d have to grind / buy for another skin card and performance card (unless they have those laying in their inventory already ofc).

Player 1 would with suggested change, style 1), has still Cobalt for each merc in the game, and Player 2 would have 1 Cobalt and rest Bronze. Nothing changes.

With style 2), the split, situation as follows: Player 1 has now as many Cobalt skin cards as he had Cobalts, merc specifically each, and respective performance cards he had for those Cobalts (same split happens to all the cards, or maybe just everything from Silver and above, that’s something I haven’t given thought). He can now proceed to merge those as he wishes, only that if he had only 1 Fragger Cobalt he obviously can merge that only with Fragger performance card, so he couldn’t for example take Rhino Cobalt he never uses/wants and put that into Sawbonez card he likes.

[quote=“Dox;187403”]I know it sounds stupid to some people, but there are plenty of us who have spent mega bucks grinding for specific cards, and a new system exactly like you said strips all value off everything we had to grind for.

Your system makes sense, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a way better idea than the current system 100%, but I think it’s just too late to change the whole system. If something like this does come into play it’s a huge kick in the gut for collectors and I would personally demand some kind of compensation for having items I spent hundreds of dollars to obtain stripped from me. [/quote]

Doesn’t sound stupid in the slightest. Worry about that is exactly the reason SD doesn’t have “free hands” anymore to make changes and that’s acceptable, they need to take that into account. By all means I don’t aim to suggest something that would devalue peoples inventories, so it’s good we’re having this discussion.

Did I manage to explain it better now, or does it still sound like something that would escalate into scenario you described?


(Drac0rion) #12

I know many want the current loadout system reworked with the skins.

The easiest solution I came up with was an upgrade item a few weeks ago.

[quote=“Dracorion;182515”]
Like an item that just upgrades your card rarity to the skin you’re paying for.

Bronze is like default and sold in store for credits, just get your favorite loadout and pay like
€3 for carbon/urban, €6 for swiss/crown/bamboo and €9 for fragment/shard.

Personally I think all skins should cost equally with the exception of like founders type skins where the characters actually look different. But the game already has a system where silver, gold and cobalt skins have higher value so I tried to make an example to represent the same values.
Since some people actually prefer lets say carbon over all the other skins, I think it should still be an option to get skins for lower rarities. (And maybe there could also be a way to get the Iron/Lead/default gun camos to a 3 augment loadouts.)

…why I think my values are good and actually worth it…
I think these values would be rather perfect as specific Bronze loadout costs €2.50, Expert cases €2 and elite cases €4 in my country at least. Also with the release of 2nd gen loadouts, there aren’t as many bad loadouts as before, so the values of elite/expert cases have raised a little.

To make the Expert/Elite cases even more appealing I think it would be best to group them by merc roles, but for that we should officially have mercs grouped into their roles. (As I doubt there will ever be any merc specific cases on sale)

€3 - €9 seems pretty reasonable to me, just because probably most players prefer to collect and slowly upgrade all their desired cards to preferred rarities.
Just some math to give a visual to about how much it would cost to upgrade.

1 cobalt upgrade for EVERY merc, 19 x 9 = €171, and this is just one cobalt per merc,
the more advanced pokemon trainers will want one cobalt per weapon on a single merc, so lets triple it: 171 x 3 = €513, so that’s 3 cobalts per merc.
And now the true pokemon masters will want every single card in cobalt :wink: and that’s:
171 x 9 = €1539.
Personally I’d aim to be a an advanced pokemon trainer myself and after 573 hours, I’ve only got 1/57 cards in fragment. So I would already have a €9 head start ;)[/quote]

If anyone is slightly interested in this suggestion, feel free to translate the prices into credits as well.


(doxjq) #13

[quote=“bontsa;187407”]@Dox Glad to see your insight, allow me to re-phrase myself a little better as that was rather old text you were citing and I hadn’t said it clearly in very understandable way. I hope I’m not missing something else from your text now, as I’m reading it through goddamn tired and in downturning intoxication, so apologies beforehand and here’s TL;DR at starters:

I think the misunderstandment was here: in this suggestion, only 1 Cobalt skin could be merged one-time-only with one performance card, not so that you need to only obtain 1 Cobalt skin and you can use it at all and any performance cards ever.

Aaaand onto the Wall-of-Text :sweat_smile:

[quote=“Dox;187403”]
What if people purposely collect cobalts and have spent many real life dollars and millions of in game credits collecting specific cobalts like I have? If the current system was ditched, I lose all the value off all of my cobalts, as they now become only a loadout.[/quote]

To be more precise, there are 2 ways how my idea could be executed. (certainly not mine originally but who knows who has put it up in the air first, so I hopefully don’t sound arrogant when referring to it as “my” idea from now on for sake of simplicity)

  1. existing loadouts as of now are “pre-merged”, so they already contain both skin card and performance card, which would simply be the same situation as of now for those cards. Useless stays useless, good stay good and anything that comes after can be merged at will and most plausibly with a credit cost.

  2. existing loadouts are split into skin- and performance-cards. So for example Cobalt Fragment 383 Sparks turns into Cobalt Fragment Sparks and Sparks 383 (default skin) cards.

Now here’s the part that worries anyone that has spent money on loadouts, right? That now anyone at everywhere could simply use this Cobalt Fragment Sparks on any and all Sparks loadouts they have, for example. Worst of all change it on after each match even?

The way I think my idea, no and absolutely not. They could use this Sparks skin card only on one Sparks loadout, let it be 383 or anything else they have in their inventory. And if they decide to apply skin to this Sparks 383, it’s now forever stuck on that. If they would like another Sparks in Cobalt, they’d have to grind / buy for another skin card and performance card (unless they have those laying in their inventory already ofc).

Player 1 would with suggested change, style 1), has still Cobalt for each merc in the game, and Player 2 would have 1 Cobalt and rest Bronze. Nothing changes.

With style 2), the split, situation as follows: Player 1 has now as many Cobalt skin cards as he had Cobalts, merc specifically each, and respective performance cards he had for those Cobalts (same split happens to all the cards, or maybe just everything from Silver and above, that’s something I haven’t given thought). He can now proceed to merge those as he wishes, only that if he had only 1 Fragger Cobalt he obviously can merge that only with Fragger performance card, so he couldn’t for example take Rhino Cobalt he never uses/wants and put that into Sawbonez card he likes.

[quote=“Dox;187403”]I know it sounds stupid to some people, but there are plenty of us who have spent mega bucks grinding for specific cards, and a new system exactly like you said strips all value off everything we had to grind for.

Your system makes sense, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a way better idea than the current system 100%, but I think it’s just too late to change the whole system. If something like this does come into play it’s a huge kick in the gut for collectors and I would personally demand some kind of compensation for having items I spent hundreds of dollars to obtain stripped from me. [/quote]

Doesn’t sound stupid in the slightest. Worry about that is exactly the reason SD doesn’t have “free hands” anymore to make changes and that’s acceptable, they need to take that into account. By all means I don’t aim to suggest something that would devalue peoples inventories, so it’s good we’re having this discussion.

Did I manage to explain it better now, or does it still sound like something that would escalate into scenario you described? [/quote]

Nah that makes much more sense, cheers for clearing that up.


(BananaSlug) #14

for me it could be like silver and above skins are paid only, then we would have something to buy maybe even all skins could be paid only,
just my thoughts


(ClemClem7) #15

@BananaSlug
Then make the bronze camo less ugly, because gold, silver, iron, default and cobalt are great, but woodland is not as great.


(BananaSlug) #16

@ClemClem7 replace it with the old woodland :stuck_out_tongue:


(bontsa) #17

Or better yet, get both in game and ta-da! More skins to choose from, how about that!

[quote=“BananaSlug;187454”]for me it could be like silver and above skins are paid only, then we would have something to buy maybe even all skins could be paid only,
just my thoughts[/quote]

I dont think so, its nice that players are able to reach these even with the free-way of doing things. It gives the look of proper f2p, where you either invest money or time to get what you want.

However, if there were to be more freedom in choosing where to use obtained skins in, to balance it out system should/could be done so that getting higher rarity skins is indeed harder. Lowering drop rates, separating skins to certain types of cases with possibly a low paywall,… That is territory I haven’t yet thought about, but certainly would make such change more considerable with profit in mind.