Strafe jumping

(H0RSE) #61

I was referring more to the status of things overall, not necessarily only speaking of games. I think it’s evident that throughout history, the term “times change,” has applied itself over and over - it comes with evolution.

the more people that want it then the more people will have it. The new generation of gamers have no idea what they want… they’re a bunch of bandwagon jumpers that go with the common trend and accept what’s thrown upon them.

perhaps they do not “truly” know what they want, since they tend to only stick with what’s hot, never giving anything else a chance, but at least many of them are at least having fun. It’s not like a bunch of players being complacent with what they have, and hating every minute of it.

I was watching some RtCW league matches over the weekend with 10 mins maps, classes that all have the same HP, same movement speed and differing class loadouts yet were so dynamic that they shaped the course of a match without lemming tactics. I think I’m so stuck in the past that I can’t recover… because I’m not having the fun I had with RtCW and W:ET it’s sad to say.

I agree that shooters today do not offer the same “magic” that games like RTCW had, but I like playing games too much to let it get to me. I play other games, and I try not to let their shortcomings ruin my fun. Besides, unlike many of you, shooters are not my main genre. I’m not ready to be the grumpy guy in the rocking chair on the porch talking about how “the way things were,” - I have games to play.

(BR1GAND) #62

Learning how to strafe jump in quake was a very important moment in FPS gaming for me. It added a depth to a game that seemed so simple on the surface. That continued on in W:ET and ETQW. It took some practice to get movement down in those games, an additional level of skill. IMO Brink stopped that with its SMART movement. It looked good, but there was no real skill to it. Seeing a well practiced (skillfull) player in Quake 3, didn’t turn me off to the game, it had the opposite effect.

No its not just about speeding up the movement, its about allowing for faster movement speeds.

(LaVaGoD) #63

I miss my grapple hook too :frowning:

//youtu.be/sduwpgwK6jM

(warbie) #64

Completely agree man. Quake/RTCW/ET/TFC are all old games. Most current fps gamers have no idea what they offer as they never played them. Had I grown up with fps in the last decade, I wouldn’t know either. The things is, these games offer so much more than the current crop of shooters out there. It isn’t nostalgia or an unwillingness to move forward that makes people want games of this type back, it’s the obvious move backwards in gameplay, depth, complexity, you name it, in what we have today.

(DarkangelUK) #65

Well that’s it as well. I hate when people say “you’re stuck in the past” or “things move on”… maybe, just maybe, games were just better back then and that’s what makes me still cling on to them.

(stealth6) #66

Nothing taste the same way it did the first time.

Anyway I don’t think we’ll see strafe jumping in DB, since it’s too hard and might scare off the “casual” crowd. But that doesn’t mean we can’t have any kind of cool movement in the game. Or a re-imagining of strafe jumping.

Here are some other ideas that are easier:

  • Gun recoil giving you an extra boost when you jump (by shooting behind you or shooting and jumping backwards, or shooting beneath you for a extra height)
  • Air control (just being able to steer yourself in the air, to jump in a curve down stairs for instance)
  • Crouch jumping - allowing you do jump through windows or over objects without dragging over them with your feet
  • Strafe jumping with a maximum speed, or only for 3 jumps, after the third you’re speed would dramatically decrease or jump height etc
  • ramp jumping (jumping on ramps gives extra height)
  • wall jumping (see warsow)
(BR1GAND) #67

Just make it simulate W:ET. The stamina bar limited movement enough for a bit of realism. Yet you had all the control of Q3 while you had stamina… if I remember right. Guess I need to play some W:ET its been a while.

(stealth6) #68

In W:ET you could only trickjump down slopes (the next jump had to be lower than the previous)

Well you could also just strafe jump for 1 jump for additional distance, but to keep gaining speed they needed to be lower than the previous. In Q3 you can keep generating speed on flat terrain, or even while going up slopes.

(BR1GAND) #69

[QUOTE=stealth6;417128]In W:ET you could only trickjump down slopes (the next jump had to be lower than the previous)

Well you could also just strafe jump for 1 jump for additional distance, but to keep gaining speed they needed to be lower than the previous. In Q3 you can keep generating speed on flat terrain, or even while going up slopes.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that’s right. It seemed backwards, W:ET had it right, Q3 (cpma) you could get a boost from up-sloping angles (Q4 too). Makes sense to build speed going downslope not up. Now the crouch-slide and double jump is way out.

(H0RSE) #70

Missing the point…regardless if games were “better” back then (better is an opinion-based word, funny you guys treat it as a factual term) it doesn’t change the fact that times change…I never said they always change for the better.

Maybe, just maybe the “games of old” featured gameplay aspects that catered to your playstyle and skill sets perfectly, making for an ideal environment to you to showcase your abilities, and truly show players how skilled you are, whereas newer titles, with their “streamlined” game design and features that focus on different skillsets, make for a more evenly distributed playerbase, (skill-wise) and/or removing that “god-like” feeling one could achieve by mastering the features in the older games. I’ve encountered skilled players in the newer games, but never someone I was like, “omg, that guy is so good,” like I would be in older titles, and I think this is deliberate, due to game design choices. The decreased chance or inability to be that “OMG” player, coupled with knowing what they could be in in the past, probably doesn’t sit well with some people - like their true potential is being regressed.

The bottom line is, what some see as better, others see as ****, which means the features that the most people find enjoyable most of the time, are going to be the “best” options, and sometimes they’re not the ones you like. As it is now, the test-base for this game is extremely biased in favor of game mechanics that mimic/resemble past SD games. It should be interesting when we get into beta and ideas start clashing more, what features are deemed “essential.”

Personally, I enjoyed the simplicity of the older games…what!? did I just use “simplicity” when describing the older titles? Yes. I enjoyed the straightforwardness and the point-and-click aspect of shooting. No ironsights, little to no recoil, little to no spread, etc. It’s these “arcadey” factors that made those games so fun to me. The fast, fluid movement wasn’t something I initially loved - it was something I got used to. Something I learned to deal with.

I also loved the class-based nature of these games, allowing players other than front line fighters, to contribute and win, and offering games with more substance than simply, “kill the other team” or “capture the flag.”

(ailmanki) #71

If the guys at SD have a better thing then strafejumping , why not. The double tap from Unreal I don’t like. These games without this control of movement feel like


While some of the modern shooters feel like this:

I wished we would get something like this in DB:

gregg5b.jpg1000×750 139 KB

Humans are like sheeps in general. Create a Justin Biber in Front and you will have enough which follow him. It doesn’t mean anything in the end. We all know good examples of following someone…

What some see - others don’t, cause people mostly have a certain POV. And are unable to be objective.
Times change, history repeats itself, war never ends… all the wise phrases. I think the only thing changing is me. Earth will still make its tour around the sun when I am long dead.

(BR1GAND) #72

I couldn’t disagree more. The last thing I think SD should do is “dumb down” a game to appeal to the masses. There are plenty of games out there that do that. This particular genre of shooter is not like the CODs, CSs, and BFs out there. It is unique, imo Brink went the wrong way. Sure SD built on RTCW’s original formula, but both W:ET and ETQW progressed the gameplay. I personally don’t think that this should be W:ET 2, but I kinda think what SD is doing here is building their own W:ET and use it as a base game set in their own unique environment/universe free of obligation to other publishers or licenses. From it they can retain complete control of its development and support (unlike their past titles). If SD had more control of ETQW we’d all probably be playing one of their expansions or sequels to it now. ETQW was a developmental masterpiece. Does this appeal mainly to a niche market? Yep, but from a marketing standpoint I would argue its a good market to tap.

Exactly right. Class-based, objective-focused, with elements of RPG style gameplay. There are no other games out there like this. It’s SD’s now they own it. :cool:

(stealth6) #73

What did you like about the movement? or nothing at all? Why don’t you like strafe jumping? Is it too hard? Does the movement feel unrealistic? Do you prefer realism?

Can we keep this topic about the movement in DB or advanced movement ideas? Or arguments against them (constructive).

(H0RSE) #74

This is the typical “elitist” mindset that gives PC gamers a bad name… You are assuming that a “dumbed down” game design is the only one that is going to appeal to the masses. It’s like anything that isn’t what you are wanting in the game, or anything in a lesser form of what you want = “dumbed down…” Remember, this is aiming for a f2p model, meaning the game can avoid being “dumbed down,” while still attracting a broader audience, through marketing.

This particular genre of shooter is not like the CODs, CSs, and BFs out there.

I never implied that it was, but taking advice on game design from a playerbase that strongly favors a certain formula, is hardly interesting.

Sure SD built on RTCW’s original formula, but both W:ET and ETQW progressed the gameplay. I personally don’t think that this should be W:ET 2, but I kinda think what SD is doing here is building their own W:ET and use it as a base game set in their own unique environment/universe free of obligation to other publishers or licenses.

I think their goal is (or should be) to stay true enough to originals to keep their old playerbase, while changing things enough to cater to newer generation of players and/or players that play FPS for different reasons.

From it they can retain complete control of its development and support (unlike their past titles).

This just reads like, “we can make it the game WE want, **** everyone else…” It has a very arrogant, elitist undertone to it, at least when I read it.

ETQW was a developmental masterpiece.

To each their own. I actually rank ETQW as my least favorite SD title, with W:ET and Brink ahead of it, and RTCW beating all of them.

Does this appeal mainly to a niche market? Yep, but from a marketing standpoint I would argue its a good market to tap.

But you seem to be approaching the situation like it’s this or that. Like SD can either follow their past formulas and target the niche audience, or “dumb it down” and broaden the playerbase - Is there no gray area here? why can’t they do a little of both? Is a comfortable medium out of the question?

Just seems to me that many of you have this sort of “all or nothing,” line of thinking, like if SD “compromises” the movement in anyway, then it is deemed as a failure, and I just find that way of thinking ridiculous.

[QUOTE=stealth6;417187]What did you like about the movement? or nothing at all? Why don’t you like strafe jumping? Is it too hard? Does the movement feel unrealistic? Do you prefer realism?

Can we keep this topic about the movement in DB or advanced movement ideas? Or arguments against them (constructive).[/QUOTE]

It wasn’t too hard, I just found it gimmicky - hopping around and strafing to avoid fire or make it hard for players to aim at you. I prefer my firefights more straightforward - less Matrix, more Rambo. This doesn’t necessarily mean I want a realistic speed, I just think the speed and movement should apply more for navigating and less for firefights.

(BR1GAND) #75

[QUOTE=H0RSE;417191]This is the typical “elitist” mindset that gives PC gamers a bad name… You are assuming that a “dumbed down” game design is one that is going to appeal to the masses. It’s like anything that isn’t what you are wanting in the game, or anything in a lesser form of what you want = “dumbed down…” Remember, this is aiming for a f2p model, meaning the game can avoid being “dumbed down,” while still attracting a broader audience, through marketing.
[/QUOTE]
I could care less about whether PC gamers have a bad name or not. This is going to be a PC title so sue me. I’ll use some kinder more gentle language just for you though. Use “less unique” in place of “dumbed down” and let me know if you feel better.

It seems (tell me if I’m wrong) that you would like more “tactical/realistic” movement. Thats ok. It doesn’t make you a bad person and I forgive you. What would be your compromise/grey area? RTCW had strafe jumping and since that’s your favorite non-SD title that you mentioned would that be about right?

(H0RSE) #76

[QUOTE=BR1GAND;417196]

It seems (tell me if I’m wrong) that you would like more “tactical/realistic” movement.

No, that isn’t what I want. I like arcadey elements in games. It may not be the movement system itself I didn’t enjoy, but rather the degree in which certain players were able to manipulate it, almost to the point of exploiting. I don’t like mechanics, regardless how clever or skill-based, that come off as “cheap.” If there was a way to “curb” the system, so players couldn’t game it, then you could have the speed and mobility, yet still appeal to players other than SD vets.

(BR1GAND) #77

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that. I’m really not a big trick jumper. My movement technique is not “elite” compared with most competitive players… but I do like the depth that having a skill based movement system gives a game…

I don’t mind curbing the movement as you say. And IMO SD has done that in its games. No shooting while sprinting, use of a stamina bar and limits to a max speed are ok to me. I also like a carrot or 2 on each map, that allows a small exploit (within reason) to keep things interesting.

(INF3RN0) #78

CS had bunnyhopping and even COD had impact jumps. I think we can all agree that some sort of interactive movement system that has its own learning curve is what we want in DB, even if that’s not strafe jumping. Not to mention that most movement systems didn’t break the games, but sometimes they broke the maps- which were easily fixable.

(DarkangelUK) #79

I’d say the longevity (or lack of) and the massive drops in the player base over a short period of time is speaking volumes about todays games. Are there any games released in the past 2/3 years that are still standing the test of time and are just as popular now as the day they were released? I guess you could blame the average ADD gamer, or you could blame the devs for releasing a new version every year, but I can’t say I’ve played a game in a past few years that’s had so much to it as to hold my attention for any length of time since to me they’ve lacked the depth of the older games. Sure who knows, could be in my head, I could be stuck in the past and throw-away games are the future… if that’s the case then SD are wasting their time with DB since I guess everyone will just jump to the next title 6 months down the line.

(H0RSE) #80

It’s inevitable that those “ADD gamers” are going to play DB, and like you said, move on 6 months down the line, especially with a f2p game. The question is, what causes this behavior and how can it be countered? Is it truly the movement system? Is it a lack of a specific gamemode? Is the the gun mechanics? You say you haven’t played a title recently that was able to your attention compared to how older titles did. In the same regard, there are players who have absolutely no interest in those older titles, and enjoy the newer games - it’s different strokes for different folks, and where you see boring, dull or lacking depth, others may not. This is why I am really looking forward to feedback once the game begins to take shape and the test base expands, so we can get a more broad scope of opinions from players.