Strafe jumping

(stealth6) #1

As somebody who still plays W:ET solely for the purpose of trickjumping I feel obligated to request some form of advanced movement. Be it strafe jumping or at least air control.

At the moment you just jump and you have no control, which is realistic, but adds little to the movement.

Please make it a bit more interesting to move around. With air control I mean being able to steer in the air. Jump around corners and the like.

Or jump crouching allowing you to fly across an obstacle, or jump a bit higher.

(Runeforce) #2

I miss the circle-strafe jump ((etqw) valley bridge jump) and the ramp jump (boosting height to your jump, while jumping from an upwards sloping ramp) and the ability to string csj’s together for added speed, the etqw way.

And some tight air control!

(Seanza) #3

+1 for this idea. Different game engine, so the movement will probably never be replicated to the movement we all know and love in ET & ET:QW, but we could definitely do with some sort of more-than-just-jumping movement. Not S.M.A.R.T please :wink:

(DarkangelUK) #4

As much as I’d love this to be added, I’m already reserved to the idea that this more than likely won’t happen. They’ve already said the maps are designed around the current player speed, I’m guessing they believe going any faster will break this… so any method of getting faster won’t be added either.

(zenstar) #5

Has anyone tried grenade jumping yet?

(stealth6) #6

Honestly the game is too fast for me atm, seems like they took out strafe jumping and ramped up the speed to compensate.

You die. :slight_smile:

(amazinglarry) #7

What DUK said. (I like to think I contribute)

(light_sh4v0r) #8

I too would like some form of advanced movement, something to practice :slight_smile:

(SockDog) #9

Not sure what could be supported without going back to the maps but I suppose now is going to be the only time to push the topic before too much work is done.

I wouldn’t be against some movement mechanics for a speed boost or some slight air control.

As for jumps etc, maybe they can put in some pixel perfect jumps to access areas or short cut. This would at least mean there would need to be some element of practice and skill to pull them off successfully and consistently. Of course the problem there would be that certain classes move slower and thus don’t just as far as others. :confused:

Not a great issue for me but I’d vote for rather than against.

(Thundermuffin) #10

Something has to be done about jumping, because it’s too awkward not being able to control yourself. I’ve become extremely accustomed to jumping and then as I hit the ground jumping again and using air control to move through doorways in Counter-Strike. This game makes it feel like we’re taking a step backwards, because when I jump the only direction I’m able to go is forward even if I allow my character to land and jump again. It’s like the momentum is stored between quick jumps and that really slows the gameplay down for me.

(zenstar) #11

I wouldn’t mind a crouch jump to be honest. Gives a little extra air if you pull it off but isn’t too much of an advantage.
I’m mostly ok with the movement, but jumping seems a little low to me. Just a touch short of where I expect it to be.

(Ca9ine) #12

I don’t think the movement will be replicated.
If I remember correctly, the id Tech strafe jump speed gain was a bug that “stuck” as players got used to and learned to embrace. Especially in Q3A.

None of the Unreal Engine games like UT ever had that same effect.

(shirosae) #13

It wouldn’t need to be a bug.

Depends on how movement in this engine is done, but you could calculate the player’s orbital angular momentum based on rate of change of the momentum vector, plot it with a normal distribution around the right value, and add a term to your forwards movement based on it. Curve your quarter circle at the right radius and you get a speed boost.

You know, one of the big things about UT was the mutators. A trick-jumping mutator would go a long way towards making fun times happen.

(DarkangelUK) #14

In my experience of the maps, there doesn’t seem to be that many areas that would be broken with advanced movement. Most areas I’ve seen that are accessible with well timed jumps just look like they’d be easier is all… though I’ve not actually jumped on and tried to get to the ‘places you shouldn’t go!’

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #15

An alternate idea is to slow down the game base movement speed and then allow a “strafe jumping” like game mechanic to bring player speed up to the maximum desired velocity. Therefore players that take the time to master the skill are rewarded while new players see something amazing is possible.
If I were going to do this, then I would make it part of a training video AND introduce the mechanic to new players like the browser version of Quake 3. I would specifically make a simple trick jump map to force new players through on the first launching of the game. They may not master the skill in a quick training session, but they will understand what other players are doing and have a resource to get better at jumping without getting shot at.
The only downsides I see are 1)virgin players being discouraged by being raped by expert players in the first play sessions, especially if the game has legs 2)increased development time.

/Haven’t played yet… downloading.
//Still a reasonable idea I think.

(amazinglarry) #16

I can appreciate the ‘easy to learn hard to master’ idea in general, but I think having elements like movement be ‘practice(pro) based’ is tough. It’s one of those “sticky situations” where it adds a ton of value in some respects but also alienates certain players.

The easiest way I can describe this is that, for me at least, I will almost never really attempt to adopt a game that has been out for a while, where people have established familiarity with the mechanics because it’s too easy to just get flat out dominated, and therefore frustrated etc.

I’m playing devils advocate here too in a way but… I prefer just flat out ability based on familiar, easy to learn mechanics. If we have the top of the crop strafe jumping all over the place it may discourage people from giving it a chance.

Disclaimer: Thanksgiving weekend I’m 16 beers deep.

(H0RSE) #17

I’m all for the idea of advanced movement mechanics and more player control over his actions, but at the same time, I’m not a huge fan of firefights turning into acrobatic spectacles, like a scene from The Matrix or a Cirque Du Soleil show. In other words, I think advanced movement is great for navigation and map exploration, but I don’t like when it intrudes into my firefights. I like my gun battles to be more straightforward.

And before anybody says anything, my opinion on this subject has nothing to do with my skill level (or lack of) when trying to hit moving targets, or anything like that. I just prefer my firefights to ‘feel’ like firefights, and not circus sideshows.

(DarkangelUK) #18

I think ET handled it quite well, firefights were firefights but the movement was used for map traversal.

And before anybody says anything, my opinion on this subject has nothing to do with my skill level (or lack of) when trying to hit moving targets, or anything like that. I just prefer my firefights to ‘feel’ like firefights, and not circus sideshows.

OMG NOOB! :wink:

(Rex) #19

I bet you aren’t a QW player :wink:

(Anti) #20

You guys are having the same debate we constantly have on the dev team :smiley: I’m not sure there is any easy solution though.

With Dirty Bomb we want to make a true PC FPS with all the fluidity, tempo and skill of our previous titles, something that will really appeal to our existing fans.

However, we also realise it’s not 2007 anymore :slight_smile: We want to ensure the game is equally fun for the many many PC FPS players who have only started playing in the last five years or so, folks who have not been exposed to strafe-jumping, ‘dancing’, low damage weapons and the need to track targets for an extended period.

We believe we can make something that is the essence of the former and that will bring something new and exciting to the latter. That may mean we don’t end up having a set of mechanics that entirely matches some of our previous games, especially if we don’t feel we can get the balance right with them.

As an example I think strafe-jumping and dancing will be very hard to get right for everybody, but on the flip side I agree with many of your comments that we can do more with evasion, survivability and making movement feel more skillful, as well as perhaps reducing weapon fire rates and lethality.

These aren’t quick things to balance properly, it takes a lot of trial and error, lots of iteration, but hopefully you guys can appreciate the approach we’re trying to take. Certainly seeing you guys split on the issue, and having the same debate, gives me lots of confidence that you can see just how tough a task this is :cool: