Stopwatch Timers

(amazinglarry) #1

After playing a few rounds tonight (albeit 2v2’s) it became apparent to me that during the second round of a SW game where the objective takes longer from start to finish than the time remaining, it’s effectively ‘useless’ time for both teams.

For example, on Trainyard, if the attacking team beats the map in 9 minutes total, that means that during the second round, the attacking team has 8 minutes and 29 seconds to plant on the railcar (given there’s a 30 second timer). When the timer goes beyond 8 minutes and 29 seconds, the final 30 seconds is moot, since the defending team pretty much automatically wins at that point.

My issue with this is that I’m under the impression that those false 30 seconds given to the second round team is misleading and doesn’t necessarily give the proper sense of urgency to push to beat the time. An analogy I have is the NHL Playoffs (to those who watch hockey). Tonight was a great example where Minnesota was up 4-3 for roughly the last half of the 3rd period, when Colorado scored with 13 seconds left. The point is, teams knowing they have a finite amount of time to complete an objective is a lot more exciting.

The potential problems with this comes with clear communication to both teams that the time reflected in the 2nd round indicates how much time the attacking team has to START AND COMPLETE the final objective without interruption.

How do you feel about this? Is it worth the potential miscommunication? Should there be an extra ‘Tactical Timer’ in addition to the normal timer that would reflect how much time is left to start an objective before there would be no time remaining?

(RasteRayzeR) #2

I support the idea, and as suggested maybe a tactical timer with audio feedback could put more pressure and thus result in more intense action when closing on the objectives’ deadlines.

I find it also true that the time when you know it’s lost/won usually turns into either idle players or melee time because the game is basically done. TF2 uses supercharge to encourage the melee at the end of the rounds, maybe there could be an additional way to keep players in the game for these 30 last seconds:

  • extra xp reward time ?
  • TF2 style with winning team having charge ?
  • a combat break of 30 seconds that actually boosts the score of the teams ?
  • permanent death like an execution at the end of the game ?

Or maybe you could purchase for your team additional time if you can wipe the enemy team ? But that’s pretty much against SW philosophy I guess.

(Ashog) #3

Wasn’t the objective mode overtime supposed to achieve that in some way?

(RasteRayzeR) #4

Overtime in obj mode is supposed to be fair and give you an additional chance if you are close to finishing an objective. Also you fight till the end in obj mode. There is no overtime in SW, hence the issue of having people not fighting anymore when they know they have lost already.

(Ashog) #5

Yeah, but I mean, why not then having overtime in SW too? In this or another form.

(amazinglarry) #6

Well Stopwatch implies a static time limit where within it a team needs to beat the time set… It’s different than objective because you’re not competing against a time set by another team.

I was just trying to draw a parallel between where in SW if the second round team advances beyond the first round team (objective wise) the match automatically ends. It doesn’t play out until the last seconds. Why should it be the case where time plays out if a team can’t complete an objective in time?

(Glottis-3D) #7

well. yeah. it is essential for new-comers. they see timer, but the dont know how much time does it take for c4 to blow.
i think something like voice-over at start “you need to plant final object 45 seconds before timer runs out” would help.
and mb additional “critical point time”. below the actual timer.

(RasteRayzeR) #8

[QUOTE=krokodealer;495152]i think something like voice-over at start “you need to plant final object 45 seconds before timer runs out” would help.
and mb additional “critical point time”. below the actual timer.[/QUOTE]

The general voices are bad currently, topic idea… Will write about it !

(Ashog) #9

Case I

SW round 1: team A sets time 9 min
SW round 2: team B plants at 8:50, overtime activates at 9:00 and continues until team A disarms (team A wins) or until explosion happens in which case team B beats the time.

Case II

SW round 1: team A plants at timelimit-10s, overtime activates at timelimit and continues until team B disarms (in this subcase IIa time to beat in round 2 is timelimit) or an explosion happens (in this subcase IIb time to beat is timelimit-10s).
SW round 2: team B in subcase of IIa plants at timelimit-5s, overtime activates at timelimit and continues until team A disarms (noone wins, draw) or until explosion happens in which case team B beats the time.
Team B in subcase IIb plants at timelimit-10s-10s, overtime activates at timelimit-10s and continues until team A disarms (team A wins) or until explosion happens in which case team B beats the time.

It really looks more complicated than it is, feels quite intuitive tbh. A bit tougher to program perhaps but is fair even for stopwatch imho.

(Glottis-3D) #10

Overtime for 1st round - is a nice idea. (i like drama)
but it only has to move the time set. i.e. if the plant is in 9-59, then the overtime activated, and team can set a 10-44 time for stopwatch round2.

in the second round attacking team still just needs to plant earlier than 9-59.

(Rex) #11

In general and as player who is used to this for years I see no problem here. It only could be bit confusing for the noobs at the beginning. But seriously after some time even the pub players will figure out how long a charge takes to explode, hacking, repairing etc.
I like the idea of a vocal announcer more than an additional timer, because 3(!) in total could be a confusing.
No idea what you mean with ‘potential miscommunication?’ though.

[QUOTE=Ashog;495158]Case I

SW round 1: team A sets time 9 min
SW round 2: team B plants at 8:50, overtime activates at 9:00 and continues until team A disarms (team A wins) or until explosion happens in which case team B beats the time.

[/QUOTE]

I don’t like overtime at all and I tell you now why it is unfair in your example.
Team A has set a time of 9mins which meams their explosive exploded exactly at 9mins. Now if Team B plants at 8:50 their charge will probably explode around 9:20 which actually takes 20secs longer than the time Team A has set. That’s unfair, because Team A has set the faster time, but Team B still wins although they needed additional 20secs to win the map.

So in comparison:

Team A: 9:00 mins
Team B: 9:20 mins

Who has set the better time now? Clearly Team A! But with the overtime rule Team B would have won. And that’s why overtime sucks!

(amazinglarry) #12

As far as miscommunication goes, it was mostly for ‘new players’ who may look at a time that’s been adjusted on the second round to account for time left, and give up. e.g. There’s a timer that says you have X seconds left to plant and defend successfully and somebody may think “well it’s under 40 seconds, so why bother.”

You’re right, though – players will definitely eventually learn how long each objective takes and can do some deduction… I guess I’m turning into a bit of a curmudgeon and don’t like waiting out ‘useless’ seconds when it’s no longer possible for my team to win.

(Rex) #13

These 30secs haven’t killed anyone in the past. It’s also not like you are stuck and can’t play anymore. :wink:
Winner teams goes for the final agressive push or the loser team makes the last attempt for their own honor. Even if they lost it’s sometimes interesting to see how close a game can be.

(Ashog) #14

[QUOTE=Rex;495211]That’s unfair, because Team A has set the faster time, but Team B still wins although they needed additional 20secs to win the map.
[/QUOTE]

OK, agree, but then the general time setting should be reconfigured to explosion time not to planting time. In this case the suggested example would probably be more fair in such particular case.

I am myself favouring the old system, but if people and SD decide they want to go for stopping the 2nd SW rounds prematurely because the time hasn’t been bet (which is even worse than the suggested example), I’d go for overtime even if its logic has to be reprogrammed - lesser of two evils kinda.

(BomBaKlaK) #15

This is not stopwatch anymore, this is the most obj win, and there is a stopwatch if both team finish the map.

I really prefer the old fashion way, only about timer.

(INF3RN0) #16

lol @ bomba

I agree that the timer is confusing in SW. I suggest that the 2nd half either set the timer 00:00 in sync with the last possible moment to plant and end the match when it blows or is diffused, or simply have some sort of clear notification like “10s left to plant!”.