Stoker vs Nader

(angelicRecess) #1

Hi everyone,
I have saved $50000 and now I am deciding whether to buy stoker or nader. I want a merc mainly to break through the enemies’ defense. Can someone tell me which merc I should choose and the pros and cons of each merc. Thank you! :slight_smile:
:smiley:

(SnakekillerX) #2

Nader is pretty good at blowing up secondary objective generators with her grenades + martyrdom.

Stoker is pretty nice at denying an area with his molotov, great for defending against a C4 defuse.

As for guns, they have very different styles. (nader has SMGs, while Stoker has rifles).
Its ultimately up to you what you’d prefer to use.

If you aren’t sure, just flip a coin, or wait for a free rotation to see if you like them.

(BlackboltLW) #3

First, try to recognize your playstyle.

Nader is pretty nice to both aggro on offense and denies area in defense with her Grenade Launcher, but she lacks firepower due to her primaries are SMGs (though those weapons are beast if used correctly). The Grenade Launcher is pretty nice to kill objectives/EV, and also breaking enemy lines if used correctly. Just make sure you don’t always hit that “F” button while downed, though

Stoker focuses more on area denial with his Molotov and block any entries from enemy mercs, and supplying ammo to your friend via ammo station which is good for placing an attacking/defending spot. His ability is pretty weak towards generator/EV but the fire is pretty good for create chaos on well-defended areas and spreading panic on one spot. Also his primaries are pretty decent.

(hawkeyeguy99) #4

For breaking through defense I’d recommend Stoker or Fragger. Nader doesn’t have the best healthpool (imo) for pushing forward and breaking through defense.

(Jostabeere) #5

That’s funny since Stoker and Nader both have the same health.

(AlphaUT) #6

Let me give an example, in Underground, Stoker just need to burn secondary one time + 1~2 magazine ( depends on how you throw it), the gate will open. Nader has to use 8+ nades to open it which take a lot of time compare to Stoker.

(n-x) #7

Both are great mercs and really fun to play. But for breaking through enemy lines I would take Nader.

Reason: You can bounce grenades from walls into enemy groups maybe killing one, harming the others. They definitely have to retreat and you can go after them and use the moment of disorganization to finish the harmed ones of. You cant really do this with Stoker, since when you throw the molotov in a tight corridor for example and they retreat behind a corner, you cant follow them as your fire is blocking your way (and in ranked the way of your team).

  • It is the most satsifying thing in DB to kill a Proxy midair with a direct grenade.
(LifeupOmega) #8

Nader, does area denial on the same level as Stoker, also serves as a direct assault, has the Crotzni. Stoker is pretty much a budget Skyhammer.

What? Crotzni and Hochfir are ridiculous and on-par with whatever Stoker gets, discounting Stark. She also has the Nade Launcher, so you direct people with that and finish them off with your SMG. Miles more firepower on a lower cooldown, hence why she’s assault and not fire support like Stoker.

(AlphaUT) #9

How to be satisfied by the headshot din din sound? Play Hochfir

(DirtyDav) #10

[quote=“LifeupOmega;215456”]Nader, does area denial on the same level as Stoker, also serves as a direct assault, has the Crotzni. Stoker is pretty much a budget Skyhammer.

What? Crotzni and Hochfir are ridiculous and on-par with whatever Stoker gets, discounting Stark. She also has the Nade Launcher, so you direct people with that and finish them off with your SMG. Miles more firepower on a lower cooldown, hence why she’s assault and not fire support like Stoker.[/quote]

Was going to say “Well, Crotzni technically has a lower dps than any assault rifle”, but then I looked to the wiki and saw crotzni’s higher than timik and m4…wtf? I did not know this. Knew it was the most op smg but didn’t know it was that much higher…

Although to be fair, it’s effective range is considerably shorter than any assault (which goes for all the smgs).

Also I’m a fan of the “heavy” pistols, so that’s another plus for me on Stoker’s side since nader doesn’t get any.

(LifeupOmega) #11

Crotzni has more spread after 10 bullets or so it feels, but when you fire in bursts it becomes easy to mow people down, especially with the nade launcher doing 90 (I think?) direct damage anyway. Only time I notice this is on the long sightlines of Chapel, and that’s why you utilise cover or buildings and hold them while your AR wielders fight on the road.

Stoker’s fire is also on a 40 second cooldown, it’s not a killing tool, it’s for area denial. Funnily enough a couple of Nader’s nades can clear a path through the fire, so she’s a pretty good counter against him.

I just don’t see Stoker as anything more than a gimped Skyhammer right now. Long cooldown, low damage and Nader still manages to keep up area denial well enough by forcing her opponents back through sheer brute force damage.

Even on a map that Stoker should shine in, Underground, I’d still run Nader because I can breach enemy entrenchments better and faster than he can, without the severe cooldown penalty that is inherent with fire supports.

But, to be fair, I’m comparing a solid assault merc with a niche pick fire support.

(DirtyDav) #12

wtf another thing I didn’t know…you can blow up fire? dafuq?

As for comparing him with skyhammer, meh. Abilities are obviously very different, most notably you can’t use airstrike everywhere, ammo stations vs ammo deployables, and he gets br instead of stark (I’d argue that’s a big difference personally but that’s up to debate).

Personally, I’d take stark over crotzni any day. Maybe even timik over crotzni just because I like the feel more.

But the biggest thing I have against nader is that…well…she just feels cheap. Which is a plus in the favor of her being op, but nades just feel way too broken imo; land a direct hit and you’ve got a massive 90hp head start on someone, enough to even insta them if they’re female and not nader (not sexist, they all have <=90 hp lol).

But overall I’m personally in favor of stoker just because I like stark (also broken but at least it takes aim), and sometimes nades are hard af to land, sometimes easy af, sometimes just lucky af.

(BlackboltLW) #13

Yeah, you can kill fire with explosives. What people don’t usually know are:

  1. You can kill fire with anything that could explode
  2. You can kill fire with Redeye’s smoke
  3. You can kill Redeye’s smoke with anything explosive
  4. You can kill generators with explosives or anything that could do damage
(Your worst knifemare.) #14

It really depends on which merc you want or need more.

[quote=“BlackboltLW;215488”]Yeah, you can kill fire with explosives. What people don’t usually know are:

  1. You can kill fire with anything that could explode
  2. You can kill fire with Redeye’s smoke
  3. You can kill Redeye’s smoke with anything explosive
  4. You can kill generators with explosives or anything that could do damage[/quote]

I knew points 1, 2, and 4 :slight_smile:

(LifeupOmega) #15

[quote=“r2dav2;c-215485”]As for comparing him with skyhammer, meh. Abilities are obviously very different, most notably you can’t use airstrike everywhere, ammo stations vs ammo deployables, and he gets br instead of stark (I’d argue that’s a big difference personally but that’s up to debate).

Personally, I’d take stark over crotzni any day. Maybe even timik over crotzni just because I like the feel more. [/quote]

Well that’s the thing, I’m obviously not going to be the authority on what people play, and personal feel plays a lot into what people enjoy so you might enjoy what I don’t. I will note however that the airstrike works as an indoor grenade, which is relatively handy as it only incurs a 15 second cooldown. It doesn’t deny as hard as a molotov indoors but it’s definitely a bit more versatile overall when you can also set up spawn wipes and such with it outdoors.

I’d argue that the ammo station is pretty useless right now compared to throwables, especially as the enemy will use your station while, if you’re clever with ammo bags, they won’t get any benefit.

BR vs Stark is that personal feel thing again, I also prefer Stark but I can’t justify the molotov in most situations.

She is an assault, and again, we’re comparing a fire support against her. Direct hits are where her skill curve comes in; we’ve all met the typical Nader player in pubs. They launch all five nades in a volley at you, none of them connect, you’ll take a tiny bit of splash damage and back off and now they have nothing to stop you murdering them - however a good one will use one or two at a time and dump bullets into whoever they’re targetting. She’s much more ability focussed than Fragger or Thunder in that regard - both of whom rely much more on their guns - hence the ARs and LMGs trying to emphasize that, but I wouldn’t call her cheap or OP in a competent setting due to her assigned role of breaching entrenched players and assault.

Hitting directs needs to be rewarded, and I feel that if they got any heavy nerf damage-wise we’d see her fall behind Thunder and Fragger right now, especially considering her lower health pool. Good players will typically be able to juke a Nader with some degree of success, this was something I saw a lot whenever I played with the better portion of the playerbase. Prediction will never be 100% as reliable as hitscan, and I feel that its in a good place right now in terms of pay-off for scoring those hits on fast targets.

This is also why we always see light mercs use Unshakeable if they can in a lot of cases. I can’t speak about current card meta in pugs/comp but I know I’ll definitely use unshakeable in public due to the heavy spam that naturally occurs in a non-ff environment, as do a lot of people I know.

(Chilled Sanity) #16

Nader is a sentient mortar while stoker is the xXPr0St0K3sXx

(Holy shit this post’s old)