Stoker Molotov is too weak

(gloomyRequirement) #1

Let’s face it, it is an obnoxious ability to fight against from time to time - but it really isn’t onpar with other similar abilities. Before I start I’d like to sum up what I think are the pros and cons of the molotov(these are relative to similar abilities):

Pros:
-Decent area of effect
-Enormous ticking damage, you can’t move through the napalm without dying
-Napalm lasts pretty long
-Reliable area denying, for a short period

Cons:
-Almost all mercs(even Rhino, which has more to do with his hp pool but still counts) can escape a DIRECT hit from Napalm if they jump away immediately after
-Very long cooldown with 35 seconds
-Usually very predictable, unlike fragger’s or nader’s grenades it cannot bounce of walls
-Poor throwing range compared to both fragger and nader
-Suffers from annoying backlashes when thrown directly against a wall, decimating the AoE by half when it hits the ground
-Potentially very harmful towards yourself(much more so that Nader’s grenades in close combat)

The cons are too much to ever pick Stoker over Nader or Fragger. He does, unlike both others, have an ammo station - but then again Fragger has better weapons and more hp whereas Nader’s grenades are incredibly much better than Molotov.

My suggestions to fix molotov to be on par with the rest:
-Direct hit instantkills the enemy(direct hits are rare after all)
-Decrease cooldown to 25 seconds
-Vastly increase throwing animations and weapon switching afterwards

I like Stoker but if I’d really want to win I would never pick him over similar mercs like Fragger or Nader.

(MvMArcher) #2

Why are you comparing him to assault mercs?

(gloomyRequirement) #3

What…

(Dawnlazy) #4

I have the distinct impression that people die faster if I throw the molotov at their feet than on their face.

(MvMArcher) #5

What…[/quote]

Stoker is a fire-support merc, which is why he has a very strong ability with a lengthy cooldown.

Fragger and Nader are both assault mercs, which is why their abilities are focused on killing rather then area denial.

You should compare his molotov to Skyhammers airstrike instead, if you did that you’ll see that Stoker is very much up to par with the other fire-support mercs in the game.

(Reddeadcap) #6

What…[/quote]
There are 5 merc archtypes.

Fire Supports: Kira, Stoker, Skyhammer, Arty. They supply ammo and are armed with airstrikes, Stoker being the only who can toss it indoors.

Assaults: Rhino, Fragger, Thunder, Nader. They’re basically on a sliding scale of high health and direct damage dealing to lobbing grenades and indirect fire.

Medics: Aura, Sawbonez, Phoenix, Sparks.

Recons: Aimee, Redeye, Phantom, Vasilli. Mostly able of detecting enemies and long range, except for Phantom.

Engineers: Bushwacker, Fletcher, Proxy, Turtle.

Stoker offers a lot of area denial and is the only fire support who can work indoors.

(gloomyRequirement) #7

What…[/quote]

Stoker is a fire-support merc, which is why he has a very strong ability with a lengthy cooldown.

Fragger and Nader are both assault mercs, which is why their abilities are focused on killing rather then area denial.

You should compare his molotov to Skyhammers airstrike instead, if you did that you’ll see that Stoker is very much up to par with the other fire-support mercs in the game.[/quote]

I don’t particularly think you should be thinking in classes…Yea Skyhammer has the same weapon loadout cards - but Kira has the same ammo station. Skyhammer’s ultimate is also nothing even anywhere near comparable to Stoker’s.

Another way to repute whatever you’re trying to say is that there’s an equilibrium among all mercs, they’re all suppose to be “balanced”. Fragger has more firepower, more hp, is only slightly slower and has a better ability than Stoker. The only downside he has to compensate for that is his lack of an ammo station(which is still vastly inferior to ammo packs). Nader’s grenades are eternally much better than Molotov, I don’t think I even need to convince you about that.

(gloomyRequirement) #8

I have the distinct impression that people die faster if I throw the molotov at their feet than on their face.[/quote]

I have the distinct impression that people die faster if I throw the molotov at their feet than on their face.[/quote]

Idk, never really tested that frankly. But often when you throw it over longer distances and you happen to hit someone in the face they still have a very good chance of leaving alive(I believe only Fletcher can’t survive a direct hit - some others are very unlikely to like Skyhammer or Stoker himself)

(MvMArcher) #9

I give up.

(gloomyRequirement) #10

What…[/quote]
There are 5 merc archtypes.

Fire Supports: Kira, Stoker, Skyhammer, Arty. They supply ammo and are armed with airstrikes, Stoker being the only who can toss it indoors.

Assaults: Rhino, Fragger, Thunder, Nader. They’re basically on a sliding scale of high health and direct damage dealing to lobbing grenades and indirect fire.

Medics: Aura, Sawbonez, Phoenix, Sparks.

Recons: Aimee, Redeye, Phantom, Vasilli. Mostly able of detecting enemies and long range, except for Phantom.

Engineers: Bushwacker, Fletcher, Proxy, Turtle.

Stoker offers a lot of area denial and is the only fire support who can work indoors.[/quote]

I didn’t mean saying I wasn’t aware of the classes lol, I implied what purpose saying they’re different classes has here.

I personally think the roles are very much overlapping. If it wasn’t you’d see a proper segregation in strengths - which simply isn’t there apart from a very few:

Fire support: would be strongest at medium range(which isn’t true)
Assault: strongest in toe to toe battle(which isn’t true apart from Rhino)
Medics are a real class that functions differently, no denying
Recons: Redeye is very comparable to “fire supports” when it comes to fire power, Phantom has nothing to do with either scouting or staying back
Engineers: good at passively defending areas(which is actually quite true, but can also be done by several other classes in a more aggressive manner).

Why wouldn’t I be allowed to compare classes if their powers overlap so greatly?

(gg2ez) #11

Please do, you’re not the brightest bulb.[/quote]

I don’t think you should be commenting on who the brightest bulb is either. It doesn’t matter whether or not you think that Stoker is more comparable to Fragger or Nader, the fact of the matter remains that Stoker is a Fire Support class and his ability is weaker than other Fire Supports simply for the fact that he can use it anywhere. On another note, have you ever seen a nade block off an area for 12 seconds?

(Frogteam) #12

I’m going to have to disagree that the ammo station is vastly inferior to ammo packs. While I do agree that ammo packs are better, ammo stations are still pretty dang good. You can use them for cover, to block doorways/paths, and you can supply your team even while you’re not around.

This is a real Signature.

(solace_) #13

giving him insta kill for all mercs on direct hit I think is too much. Maybe make it like a guarunteed 100 damage or something. They could also change the area it covers and the duration to bring it up to speed with similar mercs’ abilities.

(RyePanda) #14

Maybe you don’t realize that the Molotov can block the enemy from defusing a c4 for 10 seconds. Or that it can significantly damage the EV and generators.

(TheVulpesFox) #15

Never seen so many dislikes on a post before. Can anyone find one with more?
And stoker is beasty as he is now, and balanced IMO. I don’t think he needs to be changed at all.

(pliableBreadstick) #16

I think stokers molotov is very good for clearing out close areas.Of cours you not play with him chapel.Even the explode damage kills an aura instintly!!

(Eox) #17

If you state the Molotov as underpowered, you obviously didn’t experienced enough a cheap death by taking a Molotov direct hit : it’s an almost instant kill, and a very frustrating death for the guy in front of you as the molotov explodes by contact with the environement. Basically : aim the feet, get kills. The high CD balances it, but it stays frustrating to deal against. Worse, you recognise that the Molotov is frustrating in your introduction, but you suggest nothing to compensate : you just suggest a huge and undeserved buff that would make him even more frustrating to deal against, and totally overpowered by the way.

Stoker is not an assault. His Molotov does not need cooking, making it much less predictable than a Frag Grenade (if Fragger does not shoot, he’s obviously cooking one), and direct hits deal too much damage to be escaped reliably with your life already if your health is at 120 or below. There’s misinformation in your post, and you shouldn’t put a fire support on par with the killing potential of an assault merc.

Also, let’s not forget the Ad Hominem arguments… Insulting @MvMArcher won’t make you more convincing. It’s actually the opposite.

(Szakalot) #18

I stopped reading after OP called Skyhammer’s airstrike an ‘ultimate’.

(CCP115) #19

Molotov needs buff?

No, no, no, molotov needs nerf.

(JJMAJR) #20

100 damage IS an instant kill to quite a few mercs, and can kill 90% of the mercs in the game with the added DoT in the molotov’s area.

[quote=“CCP115;144302”]Molotov needs buff?

No, no, no, molotov needs nerf.[/quote]
I’d like to see Stoker’s character changed, not his ability. Make him have higher health/speed but at the cost of changing his weapons to SMG/PDWs. I am quite upset with the weapon diversity in the Fire Support classes and I’d love to see an SMG/PDW class, as well as shotgun classes.

I’d also like to see Kira’s and Arty’s weapons be more different between each other.