Stoker is OP?

(Mrarauzz) #1

some people i have faced think stoker is OP but i think Sky is still better than him (all around)
what do you guys think? any thing particular you dont like about him, or is there something you want changed?

(Mr-Penguin) #2

He’s fine as is.

(ProfPlump) #3

He’s perfectly fine as he is. Personally I think the only thing that is possibly OP about him is the fact that he is the only Fire Support merc who is effective on indoor maps (like Underground).

But that only makes him a better choice than the other Fire Supports - it doesn’t mean that he needs a nerf, it just means that he fills a niche that has previously been impossible to fill and at little cost to his combat or team-loving abilities.

All I would say is that, as of the recent changes to burst fire rifles, Kira and Arty are much less viable in comparison to Skyhammer and Stoker who can use the M4/Timik-47.

(Mrarauzz) #4

[quote=“ProfPlump;103803”]He’s perfectly fine as he is. Personally I think the only thing that is possibly OP about him is the fact that he is the only Fire Support merc who is effective on indoor maps (like Underground).

But that only makes him a better choice than the other Fire Supports - it doesn’t mean that he needs a nerf, it just means that he fills a niche that has previously been impossible to fill and at little cost to his combat or team-loving abilities.

All I would say is that, as of the recent changes to burst fire rifles, Kira and Arty are much less viable in comparison to Skyhammer and Stoker who can use the M4/Timik-47. [/quote]

yeah totally agree, i still find myself gravitating to sky hammer a majority of the times still, but on underground its an easy choice for me.

(farcicalMesh) #5

His molotov grenade is a bit OP. The fire radius can block off an entire road and prevent the enemy from crossing. This lets the enemy only come from one direction and lets your team farm points. It is not fun for the other team and quite frustrating. Also, the molotov grenade is almost a one-hit KO. Once thrown, it instantly spreads engulfing people in it and almost instantly dying. The only merc that could possibly survive is Rhino because of his HP, but he runs too slow!

(Mrarauzz) #6

idk its only 10 seconds and you can jump over it or snuff it out with explosives or smoke. I personally i have never controlled a point with the fire like i want. The end of chapel for attackers if i want to control a zone i use skyhammer because it makes people move behind the rock or insta death, and in the video i hit a rhino dead on but he still ran before he can die :stuck_out_tongue: I find that to be a majority of the time that they dont die from a direct hit unless they dont keep moving constantly, but an experienced player will always be on the move.

(HoopleDoople) #7

Stoker is very well balanced, though the M4 remains as OP as ever. Molotovs can be scary but they aren’t the ultimate tools of area denial as the fire can be extinguished. Airstrikes, on the other hand, you’d best run from those. But of course if its indoors Molotovs are the best you can do.

(Mr.Dubstab) #8

First things first. Let me answer your question: I do feel like he is fine as he is.

Now… I see a lot of people indeed compare him with Skyhammer, JUST like the video did. A part that I missed in the video… Is the part where people feel like he is too OP. “The difference is that the Molotov is way more spontaneous than Skyhammer’s Airstrike.” The Molotov explodes on hit, while the Airstrike takes a while to do it’s (real) work. Most people feel like you need to get 1 or 2 seconds before it explodes, to replicate (yet again) Skyhammer’s Airstrike. Personally… If that gets done? Stoker is worthless, other than blocking paths (how I use him already most of the times). That should not be the case, in my opinion.

It should stay like it is.

(Grave_Knight) #9

I wouldn’t call him worthless for only blocking paths. That fire is great for clearing out deployables. And if you manage to catch enemies off guard you can easily kill three guys with one molotov (or at least critically hurt them).

(Mr-Penguin) #10

And of course you’ll be shooting at them while they bunny hop away from the flames.

(Sinee) #11

I don’t think he’s incredsibly OP… The only thing I’d tweak on him is the TTK of the fire. It’s fire. It burns. It doesn’t kill nearly instantly. I would slow down the damage rate… at least make it comparable to the gas rooms on various maps. You sustain damage but at a pace that still gives you a chance to escape. At the moment, you can’t escape from a little grass fire without dying. Seems a little silly.

(Grave_Knight) #12

It’s not JUST fire. It’s a mixture of chemical propellants such as kerosene or even phosphorus. While it’s ingredients aren’t fully detailed I’d imagine very least there is petroleum and a gelling agent (one of his lines references napalm). So it’s going to be about 1500-2200º F. Just to put in perspective, third degree burns can be caused by water at 140º F.

(Mrarauzz) #13

It’s not JUST fire. It’s a mixture of chemical propellants such as kerosene or even phosphorus. While it’s ingredients aren’t fully detailed I’d imagine very least there is petroleum and a gelling agent (one of his lines references napalm). So it’s going to be about 1500-2200º F. Just to put in perspective, third degree burns can be caused by water at 140º F.[/quote]

that and its a video game where lasers come from the sky…and you have people that can tank 3 sniper shots to the head :stuck_out_tongue:

(Grave_Knight) #14

It’s not JUST fire. It’s a mixture of chemical propellants such as kerosene or even phosphorus. While it’s ingredients aren’t fully detailed I’d imagine very least there is petroleum and a gelling agent (one of his lines references napalm). So it’s going to be about 1500-2200º F. Just to put in perspective, third degree burns can be caused by water at 140º F.[/quote]

that and its a video game where lasers come from the sky…and you have people that can tank 3 sniper shots to the head :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

No one can tank three sniper shots to the head (unless it’s the PDP but I don’t count that as a sniper rifle, it’s a small caliber hunting rifle). Rhino can take two shots and the second shot will gib him (first shot leaves him with 50 hp which incidentally is just low enough to gib).

(Sinee) #15

I don’t really care what the backstory is, the TTK still could use a reduction. After purchasing and playing Stoker, I stand by that. But to compensate for a slightly slower TTK, I’d decrease the cool-down. The cool-down is kind of ridiculous. A reduction of cool down and slightly slower TTK would be a nice cushy balance IMO.

(Reddeadcap) #16

You see comrade, Stoker is obviously OP because he can use his abilities indoors, along with the ability having the highest AOE… That was a joke, He is area denial and a large unmovable area of effect (Opposite of Kira’s laser.), A practical use indoors, (Having skyhammer second with a much less practical grenade mode for his flares.) and balance between Kira and Sky’s cooldown and Arty.

The reason I made the above statement, the “obviously” one was because I’ve actually seen people complain because they’ve been locked due to that nice big patch of fire which is like saying Rhino shouldn’t be tanky, Phantom not cloaky, Phoenix self-revivey and Nader boomy-bloomy-martyrdoomy.

(Grave_Knight) #17

I don’t really care what the backstory is, the TTK still could use a reduction. After purchasing and playing Stoker, I stand by that. But to compensate for a slightly slower TTK, I’d decrease the cool-down. The cool-down is kind of ridiculous. A reduction of cool down and slightly slower TTK would be a nice cushy balance IMO.[/quote]

But if you lowered the damage than he becomes underpowered. Why wouldn’t I run through this fire if I don’t have to worry about it killing me? Take for example Phoenix who I’ve seen a fair number of just run straight through it healing either just before they get to the end of it or just after. Now if you lowered the damage everyone will be able to do that. It’s suppose to have a quick TTK for the same reason Kira’s space laser has a quick TTK.

(KattiValk) #18

As it stands you’re basically dead if a Stoker manages to throw on top of you and you’re also pretty much dead before you get halfway through if you actually decided to run through it. I feel like the edge DPS is too high as well as the CD. Drop the CD to 20-30 seconds and nerf the damage taken at the edges of his fire.

(Grave_Knight) #19

That’s because it does’t work like other explosives. It does’t have an outer radius. Rather it’s composed of a bunch of deployables that deal high amount of damage. It’s also why you can destroy it with explosives, the smoke bomb, and (as I recently found out) a space laser.

(JJMAJR) #20

I suggested that Stoker gets the ability to resupply friendly ammo through a supply drop ability rather than an ammo station. The problem with Stoker is that Kira’s niche is garbage now with that class around. Kira’s ability is harder to aim, and charges very slowly. Stoker’s ability lasts for a long time, and is easier to aim.

Stoker’s combo with the molotovs is a common issue with all AoE DoT effects. Combining the DPS of two weapons is something that isn’t typical for most classes other than in the case of sentry-weilding classes.