State of Play: On Mercs, Balance and Dome


(Sun_Sheng) #41

5v5 is equally good if that is the intent. I’m not sure what is meant by ranked and unranked though. I take that to mean a similar system to COD where people can track their progress and admire their kdr etc, similar to the COD leaderboard system? If that’s what you mean then no, I was thinking more along the lines of an ET style clan match where the tactics are worked out beforehand, people are given roles, and they play them with a captain calling tactics over TS.

On pubs, everything is a bit lotto and far too random for a meaningful interpretation I think. What i’d like to see is a two teams that know what they are doing and play to a strategy rather than each making their own indivdual decisions. That would give more valuable feedback, when you have guys determined to spawn rape, or hold a chokepoint, or cover a plant, etc. Rather than maybe one guy who likes to snipe, another who wants to rush, and a couple who want to TDM while one poor Proxy runs around throwing mines down

Just taking myself as an example, i’ll never spawn rape on a pub because I don’t think of it as a moral tactic in most cases. Give me a clan match and i’ll be dropping airstrikes and cross-firing the exit, same as anyone else. It needs an organised match to highlight those sorts of weaknesses on a map


(spookify) #42

[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;513239]5v5 is equally good if that is the intent. I’m not sure what is meant by ranked and unranked though. I take that to mean a similar system to COD where people can track their progress and admire their kdr etc, similar to the COD leaderboard system? If that’s what you mean then no, I was thinking more along the lines of an ET style clan match where the tactics are worked out beforehand, people are given roles, and they play them with a captain calling tactics over TS.

On pubs, everything is a bit lotto and far too random for a meaningful interpretation I think. What i’d like to see is a two teams that know what they are doing and play to a strategy rather than each making their own indivdual decisions. That would give more valuable feedback, when you have guys determined to spawn rape, or hold a chokepoint, or cover a plant, etc. Rather than maybe one guy who likes to snipe, another who wants to rush, and a couple who want to TDM while one poor Proxy runs around throwing mines down

Just taking myself as an example, i’ll never spawn rape on a pub because I don’t think of it as a moral tactic in most cases. Give me a clan match and i’ll be dropping airstrikes and cross-firing the exit, same as anyone else. It needs an organised match to highlight those sorts of weaknesses on a map[/QUOTE]

I havent played the COD leader-board system but I will be buying the new game next week so I will check it out.

I am talking a ranked and Un-Ranked system like LOL… Its basically a match making system that turns into a random clan war… I am also sure you can join with a clan also like in LOL.

Just take 5 people of equal rank and skill and put them again 5 other people of equal rank and skill and boom…

The gather was crazy fun last Sunday and it feels like a totally different game… I am no longer ramboing for kills but trying to help my team out which ever way I can… It actually feels like I am playing worse haha… But as long as your team wins thats all that matters.


(Sun_Sheng) #43

Aye, that’s pretty much what I mean. I don’t know how the gather went as I missed out on that, but essentially what i’d be looking for in a test is someone that knows what they’re doing, and them calling the shots over teamspeak. As you say, it makes for a different game completely and although I think i’m past my prime for regular competitive play, it’s something I really miss. Taking the random element out whereby someone will say “Right, i want arty on that sniper and his head off as soon as it shows … I need a reviving med backing up that engineer attacking the left side…and two guys cross-firing that position there…then I want …x…y…z” makes for a completely different game, even compared to having decent players together, each trying to guess what the other person needs for the team to work.


(spookify) #44

I want to learn more about Dirty Bomb


(Exedore) #45

Nope. As stated previously, we won’t be doing art passes until we’re very happy with how the map is playing as a blockout. I have distracted the environment artists with the Chewbacca Defense.


(Exedore) #46

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;513182]Yes but it sounds like we get the map and the blog post at the same time.
There is no input there…

Rather than communicating ideas they are justifying changes… A huge difference.[/QUOTE]
Sounds a bit like splitting hairs, and quite subjective. You’ll get both at the same time, but the map definitely is not “done”… We need the discussion to be about whether we achieved our aims with it or not, so that framework needs to be there.


(Glottis-3D) #47

ofc its not “done”! its “dome”!

dont worry, you’ll get your feedback rightaway.


(tokamak) #48

I laughed way too hard at that.


#49

I expected more info since it said ‘state of play’ in the title.


(ailmanki) #50

That is excellent news, keep em busy!


(spookify) #51

Why all this talk about Dome? Poster Child Map? Its a one dimensional “RTCW Base” ooohhh but we added trick jumps and side Objectives… Who cares…

What you need to do is design two Domes… Or even 3!
#1) SW
#2) OBJ
#3) Ex

Maps need to have a story! Objective need to have real life meaning… Again not just sitting in a square… Blowing up a radar is a good start… The blowing up of a radar can bring in air support that can blow a hole in a wall… Planting C4 can also blow a hole in the wall like terminal.

Train as a whole makes ZERO sense… The first Dyno has no story line because two random placed gates fall… The next OBJ planting in the train car also makes no sense because if you plant c4 in the train car it will not flip over it will just blow up and out… Plant dyno on the side of the car to flip it or make the animation BLOW UP!

Since you already have a run way train at the end us that! The train comes from the tunnel and smashes through those two towers at the side of the first stage… Why is there a train out of control? You hacked a track switch by blowing it up with C4 and that magically means the train has no breaks? wouldnt the c4 actually destroy the tracks the actually train was on derailing it right there? Also why is a train going that fast through that station? The doors are not open and there is no where for the train to go at that speed… So even if you do not plant c4 and hax the track switch the train is still going to crash through everything because that is its only path…

You cant just make a map to make a map… Create a story for the map almost like a little movie…

White chapel is another example of horrible story… Great you have to escort an EV to an objective but why? so you can deliver EMP’s basically two the enemy spawn? First off the angle and distance to a server room should be equal distance from the enemy spawn to a point in the attacks open field… Yes I said a server room… There should literally be a room where you delivery the EMP hardware then an engy will need to build it and arm it… This would make for epic SW games… Enemy’s should have easy access to the back and top of the room to defend while attackers would need to take a direct approach OR go through or near enemy spawn to take their route and back rage them… There is a custom map in ET that was like this… Had to enter a code from an area then after you enter the code you had to arm a bomb or something…

Conclusion:
#1) 3 Different maps for 3 different Game Modes
#2) Create a Story and think it out… (Make OBJ Interesting!) (Hard to Code?? SUCK IT UP!!!)


(tokamak) #52

In what way should SW Dome be different from OBJ Dome?


(spookify) #53

SD has stated that SW is going to be competitive “more so” then objective… When I hear that I think SW will focus on 5v5 ranked and unranked games… These games will be designed around team work; meanwhile OBJ will have more players even possible the 8v8 we are seeing now…

This should allow for 2 different maps… Possible shorter vs longer or 1 vs 2 objectives…

Dome is going to change soon so it will be interesting to see what happens… Right now Dome would be an epic fail for SW 5v5 ranked… How can you defend 2 plants especially with the messed up spawn times…

I suggested the make it like RTCW Base where you need to plant both and can fall back and heavy defend one radar and maybe get rid of the last stage all together…

Obj with 8 v 8 you can split into groups of 4 and easily work your way back and fourth between the radars… Beside its a casual game anyway and there will be progression to keep the pubbers happy… Longer maps, more objective and happy pub fragging…

That last stage in SW 5v5 would suck… half your time on the last stage would be travel time… The distance to so great and with longer spawn times more then half the match would be dead time or travel time… SD really needs to work on this…


(Exedore) #54

Stopwatch and Objective maps will use the same geometry, but timers and spawn locations might be quite different.

Execution maps will be entirely separate, but will normally use a visual theme from one of the OBJ/SW maps.


(spookify) #55

Good Luck…


(montheponies) #56

[QUOTE=Exedore;513457]Stopwatch and Objective maps will use the same geometry, but timers and spawn locations might be quite different.

Execution maps will be entirely separate, but will normally use a visual theme from one of the OBJ/SW maps.[/QUOTE]

Based on previous experience that rarely works. That said, it’s just my opinion based upon RTCW and to a lesser extent W:ET.

But more than whether it works or not is the positives in having three modes that are distinct from each other - i remember Brink being criticised because SW and Obj where portrayed as different modes, which was mocked as it was seen as being the same map basically played twice.


(spookify) #57

[QUOTE=montheponies;513475]Based on previous experience that rarely works. That said, it’s just my opinion based upon RTCW and to a lesser extent W:ET.

But more than whether it works or not is the positives in having three modes that are distinct from each other - i remember Brink being criticised because SW and Obj where portrayed as different modes, which was mocked as it was seen as being the same map basically played twice.[/QUOTE]

Its not currently working and tweaking spawn times and spawn placement is a weak fix…

All Objective maps have huge bottlenecks because of so many people… The narrow spots in maps are some time impassable by the offense…

SD needs to get this game right and right from the start… SW and OBJ need to be similar but different…


(Sun_Sheng) #58

Ok, I get that we’re avoiding the game being like ET but …now that you mention it, this is also one of the things I miss from ET. Things were clear and easy to follow. At the moment the game is just TDM with the deathmatch changing location based on how many people are foolish enough to do the objective with no support.

Every map I can think of from ET had a clear storyline or progression line. I remember a map like sw Gold for instance whereby when the tank was moving you wouldn’t just Rambo your way up to it and let loose with the deathmatching, you would choose what you felt were the best areas to disable it, and if you needed to fall back and regroup to one of those areas, you would. Fuel Dump: You wouldn’t run down the hill to fight around the tank (ok, pubs was a bit of a free for all) once it was over the bridge, you’d sacrifice the ground and take it out in the tunnel, or wait for it to emerge from the tunnel and hit it hard there.

This game just seems to play like one constant deathmatch with no tactics in sight. that needs to change for the game to be a success.

+1


#59

[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;513498]Ok, I get that we’re avoiding the game being like ET but …now that you mention it, this is also one of the things I miss from ET. Things were clear and easy to follow. At the moment the game is just TDM with the deathmatch changing location based on how many people are foolish enough to do the objective with no support.

Every map I can think of from ET had a clear storyline or progression line. I remember a map like sw Gold for instance whereby when the tank was moving you wouldn’t just Rambo your way up to it and let loose with the deathmatching, you would choose what you felt were the best areas to disable it, and if you needed to fall back and regroup to one of those areas, you would. Fuel Dump: You wouldn’t run down the hill to fight around the tank (ok, pubs was a bit of a free for all) once it was over the bridge, you’d sacrifice the ground and take it out in the tunnel, or wait for it to emerge from the tunnel and hit it hard there.

This game just seems to play like one constant deathmatch with no tactics in sight. that needs to change for the game to be a success.

+1[/QUOTE]

Yeah.
Stuff doesnt feel right.
The train gets derailed? So what?
The underground gets flooded so some servers die? so what? All the players in the underground will also die of the mass of water incoming…

This world we are fighting in, does not feel real in any way. Many things are just random and doesnt make sense


(BomBaKlaK) #60

Like Stole a drug sample in the heinserberg stash under the bridge ?

I want a merc skin like this to defend :