State of Play, Inc.: Progression Re-Revisited

(spookify) #21

Excuses my Language but, AMAZEBALLS!!!

(INF3RN0) #22

This is what I was hoping for. It works amazingly well in LoL, so I expect the same here. As for level prestige, why not go for an unlimited level system as that seems to retain a vast number of leader board/achievement types.Throw in some special unlocks for putting way too much time in, and cap leveling in non-ranked games to prevent farmers from cheating the system.

(BAMFana) #23

As someone who hasn’t been around in a long time:

I worry that the combination of merc unlocking and loadout unlocking will be so time consuming that the game will have a significant pay to win factor (in that you need to have the best combination for each merc you play to avoid being at a disadvantage). I guess we’ll see how long it takes to unlock everything with the best combinations, but it really doesn’t smell good at the moment.

(INF3RN0) #24

[QUOTE=BAMFana;517001]As someone who hasn’t been around in a long time:

I worry that the combination of merc unlocking and loadout unlocking will be so time consuming that the game will have a significant pay to win factor (in that you need to have the best combination for each merc you play to avoid being at a disadvantage). I guess we’ll see how long it takes to unlock everything with the best combinations, but it really doesn’t smell good at the moment.[/QUOTE]

Quite simply, load outs shouldn’t differ by strength. They should only differ by skins and weaponry. A common card vs an artifact card should be purely aesthetic, but should be equally opportune to have the same base weaponry/perks via crafting. Grinders will get all the best looking stuff, but most people should be able to craft similar base load outs. And if anything all perks should be available during the crafting process, where in the perk slots themselves would be opened via XP or card leveling.

(Bangtastic) #25

Are weapon Skins along weapon attachments part of the progression? (e.g. weapon X needs kills/time spent Y to get Skin Z for weapon X)

(stealth6) #26

Can you just drop the “We’re against pay-to-win” act?

(PixelTwitch) #27

:S

Surely the only way to mitigate it without removing it would be either make augments useless or add something that is much worse so these become insignificant?

So gutted that everything will be craftable…

(INF3RN0) #28

Surely the only way to mitigate it without removing it would be either make augments useless or add something that is much worse so these become insignificant?

So gutted that everything will be craftable…[/QUOTE]

I don’t really see why you’d jump to that conclusion… augments should be more oriented around play styles. It’s similar to runes in LoL, where in DB you might choose to be more supportive, defensive, rambo, aggressive, mobile, specialist, etc. There’s a lot of possible combinations that would have different appeal to different players if the augments were refined with that goal instead of random or by tier. Crafting is a big necessity in my opinion, especially for seamless pub and competitive modes and for those who can only game casually. Being able to get what you need in the most direct fashion is a big plus. While other players who can sink a lot more time in will reap the benefit of having a much more diverse inventory with all the bells and whistles. Then if a casual is so inclined to match them they can cash out. It’s the best system for everyone. Anything that doesn’t directly impact the game however doesn’t need to be craftable.

(Glottis-3D) #29

augments for differing playstyles

(Sun_Sheng) #30

Could you not just adapt the COD Prestige system of progression which is a little flawed I admit, but is probably the best progression path I can think of. With that, you have a bit of grind to get to 1st Prestige, and once there you can choose to stick, or for a small reward, go through the whole thing again 10 times.

The thing with doing things that way is that you cater for pretty much every type of player. Those who don’t want to grind can reach 1st prestige and stick with what they’ve got, giving them a reasonable chance in game since they have all the unlocks (In DB case you could adapt that so there are still things to buy). Those who do want to grind, can go through the whole thing again multiple times, unlocking things all over again, but get the icon to show off a bit with on server, etc, etc.

The biggest flaw I seee with the system, is that due to the unlocks, anyone who plays more, not only has more experience and all the other things that help to own new players, but they also have all the best weapons. For DB that might not be a bad thing though, since you can offer up unlocks that will balance that, for a small cost. In terms of retaining balance it still fits the grind or pay model

(PixelTwitch) #31

Where is the money to be made here mate?

If everything is craftable I will likely get bored with the lack of progression and not spend a penny. Also, I think you miss understand me my frustration with everything being craftable is not directly linked the to Augments. Honestly the only people this seems to be the best for are the decent players that want to min-max. Don’t see much draw for the collectors and the people with a huge interest in prestige items here…

(Bangtastic) #32

[QUOTE=Sun_Sheng;517060]Could you not just adapt the COD Prestige system of progression which is a little flawed I admit, but is probably the best progression path I can think of. With that, you have a bit of grind to get to 1st Prestige, and once there you can choose to stick, or for a small reward, go through the whole thing again 10 times.
[/QUOTE]
I would recommend this System as well.
Another thing that comes to my mind is a ranking system like bf2. Where it took you some good amount of time until you reached max level. And you got some goodies :slight_smile: Some hint how the last few levels could be designed.

Brigadier General
· Score: 180,000
· Rank: Colonel
· Awards: Veteran Armor Badge, Veteran Transport Badge, Veteran Helicopter Badge, Veteran Aviator Badge, Veteran Air Defense Badge, Veteran Ground Defense Badge
· Time: 1080 hours total play time

Major General · Score: 180,000
· Rank: Brigadier General
· Awards: Veteran Knife Combat Badge, Veteran Pistol Combat Badge, Veteran Assault Combat Badge, Veteran Anti-tank Combat Badge, Veteran Sniper Combat Badge, Veteran Spec Ops Combat Badge, Veteran Support Combat Badge, Veteran Engineer Combat Badge, Veteran Medic Combat Badge
· Time: 1250 hours total play time

Lieutenant General
· Score: 200,000
· Rank: Major General
· Time: 1440 hours total play time
General · Score: 200,000
· Rank: Lieutenant General
· Highest rank of the month

Source:http://bf2awards.com/ranks/ as you can see

It might be really real hardcore, but the cool thing about it is there is quite a exclusivity attached to it, imo ppl with such a rank you rly can call Veteran^^. The thing in other games nowadays everyone is max lvl in like a really short time. I recall SD said several times this is a game more hardcore focused, so do sth about it :slight_smile: (I must admit I love grinding a lot)

(INF3RN0) #33

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;517062]Where is the money to be made here mate?
[/QUOTE]

I’ll post a long list of things that can be monetized and how the card system would be better for both pay/free routes when I get home. This however should not be limited by monetization or excessive playtime to such an uncontrollable extent. That said, partial limited restrictions can apply and partial monetization can exist.

(Glottis-3D) #34

i once again take as an example a fail that is quakelive. so that DB will not make mistakes.
QL has a pro-subscription system - ppl buy pro-accaunt for month or several monthes or a year.

pro-sub can spawn servers anywhere and can play any map.
free player cannot join pro-servers, and cannot vote for next maps.

this system basically says: if you do not pay, you will not take part in ANY competiotion.
and since the majority of players do not pay, they broke the gaming community and lost a lot of potential.

so i strongly suggest to make a system that allows free players to play competiotions. (clan system, ladders all free / sort of free)
also a spawning servers OR renting servers is a very needed feature - any good clan will pay for this on regular basis.

buying mercs - i do not mind, since i kinda need 5-6 (proxy, stoker, bush, aura, phoenix, thunder) to play my game.

(INF3RN0) #35

So I’ll just chip away at this between renders @ work…

The pros of crafting are pretty obvious. You can test weapons and augments on free mercs or card drops, but once you’ve found your niche you can skip waiting for the ‘perfect drop’ for you which will likely require a lot of playtime or cash. This can however be limited for the f2p group, meaning you could receive a limited number of crafting kits per level. You’d still need to get drops to craft, but breaking down a card would give you the parts for crafting. These could be broken up into main weapons, secondaries, individual augments, and merc skins. Let’s say a free player got 5 crafting kits at level 10, after which they’d earn another kit every 5-10 levels or some such. In this system a free player would have the opportunity to get what they needed, but not grant them a lot of excess.

On the monetization end, you’d sell these crafting kits, loot boxes, loot boosters and rarity bonuses, upgrade kits, replacement kits (for swapping skins/card items), lotto, etc. Plus you could even sell the physical items themselves. The goal would still be to collect items, but on an individual level more so than a fixed card. Then if you wanted to go even further, you could add in a chance of ‘destroying’ (downgrading) rare skins during the crafting process, which would make the ‘perfect drops’ or those on the pre-made store a more fail safe guarantee. Additionally adding the relevancy for crafting boosters that would minimize the chances of failure. The necessary game play elements would be much more directly attainable by any player, but the status would come from those who had the rarest skins to accompany them.

(potty200) #36

I honestly think that loadout cards will cripple competition and with too many different things to choose it’ll be like brink take 2 when it boils down to play matches vs other teams.

Much more prefer the idea of skins on guns/camo/Armour. I get knocked back 10 pegs when I read your plans with these load out cards.

(spookify) #37

[QUOTE=potty200;517110]I honestly think that loadout cards will cripple competition and with too many different things to choose it’ll be like brink take 2 when it boils down to play matches vs other teams.

Much more prefer the idea of skins on guns/camo/Armour. I get knocked back 10 pegs when I read your plans with these load out cards.[/QUOTE]

It will be just like perks in COD… MW2 was awesome with the perks and the last COD that was made for PC… Black Ops 2 and Advanced Warefare blow for PC and the perks are the same old…

MW2 Comp was fun but I was down hill after that…

As long as TTK and Spam isnt to much with the perks I think they will me fine… Especially since we can craft whatever combination we want so there is really no advantage other then focusing cards to specific player play style. Again as long as it doesnt create a ton of spam or drastically decrease TTK

(spookify) #38

[QUOTE=Tast1c;517063]I would recommend this System as well.
Another thing that comes to my mind is a ranking system like bf2. Where it took you some good amount of time until you reached max level. And you got some goodies :slight_smile: Some hint how the last few levels could be designed.

Brigadier General
· Score: 180,000
· Rank: Colonel
· Awards: Veteran Armor Badge, Veteran Transport Badge, Veteran Helicopter Badge, Veteran Aviator Badge, Veteran Air Defense Badge, Veteran Ground Defense Badge
· Time: 1080 hours total play time

Major General · Score: 180,000
· Rank: Brigadier General
· Awards: Veteran Knife Combat Badge, Veteran Pistol Combat Badge, Veteran Assault Combat Badge, Veteran Anti-tank Combat Badge, Veteran Sniper Combat Badge, Veteran Spec Ops Combat Badge, Veteran Support Combat Badge, Veteran Engineer Combat Badge, Veteran Medic Combat Badge
· Time: 1250 hours total play time

Lieutenant General
· Score: 200,000
· Rank: Major General
· Time: 1440 hours total play time
General · Score: 200,000
· Rank: Lieutenant General
· Highest rank of the month

Source:http://bf2awards.com/ranks/ as you can see

It might be really real hardcore, but the cool thing about it is there is quite a exclusivity attached to it, imo ppl with such a rank you rly can call Veteran^^. The thing in other games nowadays everyone is max lvl in like a really short time. I recall SD said several times this is a game more hardcore focused, so do sth about it :slight_smile: (I must admit I love grinding a lot)[/QUOTE]

Good Idea’s but this would need to translate into a unlimited or infinite rank system.

Highest per month are you suggesting Seasons within the over all rank? That might be a cool idea…

I would love to see a working Global leader board… BF3 Had/has one but it is dominated by haxers…

The ranking system really has no determination of skill so why not something simple…

The cool part of this game will be Ranks… Sort of like LOL with triple diamond and crap… I would love to see 100 Different skill ranks! Really and I mean really classify people!

(DB Genome editor) #39

Very happy to hear that we’ll be going back to unlocking mercs in the order of our choice.

Not so happy however with the proposed initial free mercs. I have no issues with Skyhammer being in there, but like many others I would much prefer to see Sawbonez as the free medic. His weapon loadout is more forgiving as an introduction merc while Aura requires careful management of her engagement range, but more importantly his healing ability seems much more suitable for beginners:

[ul]
[li]It’s more intuitive than Aura’s, anyone coming from any FPS with a medic class / character will understand the concept of dropping medpacks.
[/li][li]It’s easier to put to good use, while Aura’s station requires thoughtful placement and timely relocation to reach its full potential.
[/li][li]It’s more likely to encourage active teamwork, while Aura’s station is likely to be a “drop-and-forget” thing for newcomers.
[/li][li]It provides mobile healing, so less likely to encourage static gameplay, while Aura’s tends to lead to fixed defense and gimped offense as people leave the front line to return to the station when it’s not keeping up.
[/li][/ul]
Using Aura to her full potential is not obvious, so I really don’t feel she’s a suitable starter merc.

I’m also disappointed not to see an engie in the free set as I’m afraid people that don’t get to play with one early on may not realize how much more efficient they are at dealing with objectives which in turn gets them into the habit of medics fixing EV and so on…

My suggestion would be to replace Aura by Sawbonez and throw Proxy in the mix. That way you still have a fast shotgun-wielding merc and a female character, but keep things more accessible while providing a more rounded starter set.

(spookify) #40

[QUOTE=Djiesse;517124]Very happy to hear that we’ll be going back to unlocking mercs in the order of our choice.

Not so happy however with the proposed initial free mercs. I have no issues with Skyhammer being in there, but like many others I would much prefer to see Sawbonez as the free medic. His weapon loadout is more forgiving as an introduction merc while Aura requires careful management of her engagement range, but more importantly his healing ability seems much more suitable for beginners:

[ul]
[li]It’s more intuitive than Aura’s, anyone coming from any FPS with a medic class / character will understand the concept of dropping medpacks. [/li][li]It’s easier to put to good use, while Aura’s station requires thoughtful placement and timely relocation to reach its full potential. [/li][li]It’s more likely to encourage active teamwork, while Aura’s station is likely to be a “drop-and-forget” thing for newcomers.[/li][li]It provides mobile healing, so less likely to encourage static gameplay, while Aura’s tends to lead to fixed defense and gimped offense as people leave the front line to return to the station when it’s not keeping up.[/li][/ul]
Using Aura to her full potential is not obvious, so I really don’t feel she’s a suitable starter merc.

I’m also disappointed not to see an engie in the free set as I’m afraid people that don’t get to play with one early on may not realize how much more efficient they are at dealing with objectives which in turn gets them into the habit of medics fixing EV and so on…

My suggestion would be to replace Aura by Sawbonez and throw Proxy in the mix. That way you still have a fast shotgun-wielding merc and a female character, but keep things more accessible while providing a more rounded starter set.[/QUOTE]

This brings up an amazing point that all classes can do objectives… We forget how much team play we loss when everyone can do everything…

I will wait until the next patchs before I go into teamwork… I am assuming we are going to focus test match making and 5v5 soon (hopefully) this will open SD and Nexon eyes to how DB works… People will start to play Objectives and maps will be over in 3 minutes… People will get steamrolled and rage quit… We saw a ton of this on 12/17 or the last day… People switched servers 3 times to get away from either stacked teams or certain players…

5v5 Match Play goes live and you see stacked teams what are you going to do /quit?
What is going to happen when a team gets rolled first stage and 1 or 2 people /quit?

SD and Nexon need a penalty that will make people not /quit… I personally do not think the LOL system of reporting works… I only feed in LOL now… Its so much more fun to troll and feed and I have been doing it for a year! Nothing has happened… It would be like killing your teammate over and over! How is SD going to handle this?