Splash Damage, why reducing randomness in card crafting is a good thing.

(watsyurdeal) #1

Currently in Dirty Bomb , you have a means of selecting the weapon type of the card you’re crafting with weapon kits, now this is cool and all, but it’s got a lot of problems to go with it. For one, the amount we need is OBSCENE, and two, the fact we can only get them from cases, is also a major problem. But the reason this is detrimental, is because it only encourages people to quit the game, rather than keep playing, it is having a negative effect on the community, cause the goal they are working toward, or in this case card, now seems so much farther out of reach than it used to be.

So, to solve these problems, I am going to propose a number of things to toss around at your meetings, that I hope will increase the likelihood of players playing the game for longer periods of time. Keeping the game alive, and keeping the players happy by letting get their dream cards.

  1. Remove fragments, entirely, instead, we should simply require x amount of credits to get y amount of crafting kits from the store. This way if someone wants to pay in the credits they’ve earned in game, or in the cash they make in real life to get the card they want, either way both players are happy.
  2. Make crafting kits the only things needed to craft a card, 1 for a bronze, 2 for silver, 4 for gold, and 8 for cobalt.
  3. Recycling cards now gives you credits instead of fragments, 250 for lead, 500 for iron, 1000 for Bronze, 2000 for silver, 4000 for gold, and 8000 for cobalt.
  4. Make crafting kits 10000 each, this is imo a fair price considering the fragments are out of the picture.
  5. Make weapon kits 12500 each, and you only need one per card, regardless of rarity.
  6. Make skin kits, (these allow you to select different types of cobalt, gold, and silver skins), and make them 12500 each as well.
  7. Make Augment Kits, these kits have a specific augment that that you can use to get the set you want, we can make these 7500 each
  8. These Augments kits do NOT need to be combined with others to get the card you want, instead, it corresponds with the first augment for a given card, so if I wanted an M91 Power Rifleman for Fragger, I would only need a Drilled Augment Kit.
  9. All these kits are given out n Arsenal Cases, AND as an added bonus, Arsenal Cases now also have a rare chance to drop as regular cases from matches, and now only contain elite cases instead of regaular or expert cases, or sets of them.
  10. If needed, add more rarities, like Diamond, Brass, etc

With these changes, let’s say I wanted to make a cobalt card.

Random Cobalt = 80000 total credits needed
Random Cobalt skin with a weapon kit = 92500 total credits needed
Random Cobalt with skin and weapon kits = 105000 total credits needed
Cobalt M91 Power Rifleman with Fragmented finish = 112500 total credits needed

Now these numbers seem steep, but keep in mind you are not spending as much as you once were in EITHER system, it’s basically a little more upfront, for a lot less in the long run. You don’t need to spend as much breaking down cards for fragments, you only need to spend 100000 credits for a specific card you want, rather than spending that amount for TWO cards you never wanted.

I know it seems like a steep price initially, but I think the initial steep price upfront, is better than the overall price you’d spend in the long stretch, all of those wasted credits you would spend trying to get what you really want.

Now why is all this a good thing? It sets a clear goal for players who understand crafting, now people who want to collect cards for their favorite mercs, can do so with a better efficiency, in other words, it keeps people playing by allowing them to keep a collection, and earn their cards fairly rather than through random chance.

(DarkMatterMatt) #2

You mean 75000 credits each, to fit in with:

Great idea IMO :smile: I’ve got 300k saved up and nothing to spend it on so this system would be great for me.

EDIT: Also, to the people who say you need RNG to make money in a F2P, using this system you would need 180000 * 19 mercs = 3.42million credits to get the perfect cobalt for every merc, so there will be something to work towards for a very long time.

(watsyurdeal) #3

Whoops, fixed my math

(retief) #4

I’m pretty sure that cobalts are supposed to be stupidly expensive. A proposal that reduces the cost of getting a specific cobalt from ~450,000 credits and a bunch of shards to ~100,000 credits is unlikely to happen. Cobalts are hard to unlock for free, and that is entirely by design – SD wants you to pay for them, not grind for them. I mean, I’d be a fan of making skins cheaper, but it isn’t necessarily good for SD.

Also, making cobalts easier to get will probably make people grind less, not grind more. People who don’t care about rare cosmetics still won’t grind for them, and people who are willing to grind for rare cosmetics will grind for them at both prices. Lowering the price simply means that they will run out of stuff to grind for sooner.

IMO, the interesting question is skin pricing. Other f2p games seem to do really well by making cosmetics available for fairly cheap real money costs – maybe $15-$20 at most, with cheap item available around the $5-$10 mark. DB, on the other hand, makes it really expensive to buy a silver+ card with a specific loadout. A few people buy into it and spend ridiculous amounts of money, while most other people decide that packs are a waste of money. Letting people buy specific silvers/gold/maybe cobalts for a reasonable amount of money (think $15 or less) might bring in more money than the current pack system.

(aminuseternal) #5

I actually like this a lot because this would also solve the problem of not having enough things to spend credits or money on, and the other thing is that being able to select your skin at a higher rarity is something I have wanted for ages.

Fragments have seemed somewhat redundant in their existence, and eliminating them for credits seems like it would more streamline the process for better, while also eliminating the problem of I need x amount of required fragments but have a number of required credits and having to further grind to recycle cards to then be able to craft what you want.

(B_Montiel) #6

Where’s the dev/editor income in all this ?

Keep in mind, 100 000 Credits is not that much for long time players. Thus they have no interest in putting money into the game. Honestly, SD already mentioned multiple times they won’t change the overall €/$ - game credits balance by much, and same for the crafting system, where the current or past crafting system will remain as a reference for a global cobalt cost.

I’d definitely vote for a significant down in expert/elite case price (with a respectful compensation to anyone who already spend prior to that) and a reliable way to obtain weapon kits through credits and real money. Crafting adjustments to this extent, no. That’d definitely kill the game by making the money income dry.

(watsyurdeal) #7

[quote=“B. Montiel;200159”]Where’s the dev/editor income in all this ?

Keep in mind, 100 000 Credits is not that much for long time players. Thus they have no interest in putting money into the game. Honestly, SD already mentioned multiple times they won’t change the overall €/$ - game credits balance by much, and same for the crafting system, where the current or past crafting system will remain as a reference for a global cobalt cost.

I’d definitely vote for a significant down in expert/elite case price (with a respectful compensation to anyone who already spend prior to that) and a reliable way to obtain weapon kits through credits and real money. Crafting adjustments to this extent, no. That’d definitely kill the game by making the money income dry.[/quote]

Then maybe they should give us more reason to spend our money then, or get steam market in the game already.

Because the same could be said about the playerbase, people no longer feel like playing cause it takes too long to get cards they want. Throw that in with people who don’t want to play as a team and well, you get people coming and going on a regular basis.

(Teflon Love) #8

Is this an assumption or a fact? Sure, Angry Joe never got a cobalt and doesn’t play the game anymore but how many people actually operate on a mind set like that?

Gameplay wise all you need is bronze, and collecting the credits to buy a specific bronze loadout just requires to play missions for a couple of cycles.

The issue that irks me more than getting gaudy loadouts in fancy rarities is that currently there is absolutely nothing worth buying for real money. So while I agree that the current loadout and crafting system is annoying and even mostly pointless, I’d prefer improvements in the monetization system in order to ensure a long term financial success of the game.

I like your proposed system of gradually reducing the random factor, just replace credits by cash in most places. That way one can buy the preferred loadout for real money in any rarity. And those who don’t want to invest money can be content with bronze or sacrifice their first born to RNGsus and keep grinding.

(watsyurdeal) #9

Is this an assumption or a fact? Sure, Angry Joe never got a cobalt and doesn’t play the game anymore but how many people actually operate on a mind set like that?

Gameplay wise all you need is bronze, and collecting the credits to buy a specific bronze loadout just requires to play missions for a couple of cycles.

The issue that irks me more than getting gaudy loadouts in fancy rarities is that currently there is absolutely nothing worth buying for real money. So while I agree that the current loadout and crafting system is annoying and even mostly pointless, I’d prefer improvements in the monetization system in order to ensure a long term financial success of the game.

I like your proposed system of gradually reducing the random factor, just replace credits by cash in most places. That way one can buy the preferred loadout for real money in any rarity. And those who don’t want to invest money can be content with bronze or sacrifice their first born to RNGsus and keep grinding.[/quote]

You’re assuming people just want one card, like I said, collections, maybe people want to get the best card, for each weapon, for each merc, because they want to.

At least that way it feels like their playtime is going toward something rather than nothing.

As fun as this game is I have to really motivate myself to play these days, cause a team who doesn’t know what they are doing, and feeling like you’re constantly doing a 1v8 can get tiring quick.

(KUST__LunarTM) #10

Good points. I never believed in the fragment crafting system ever since it came out and I still think it was a mistake to replace the original trade up system for it. One thing that more than likely will not happen is the ability to change the augments on your cards. This is taken from a similar idea I posted for having augment changes:

(EverythingElse) #11

Great ideas, but think about it. Has SD ever really listened to us on major things? On smaller level stuff, yes they do listen to us, but right now they are sitting on their high horse thinking the system is great. Soon enough the long awaited slap across the face will wake them up and THEN they will change stuff.

(Jostabeere) #12

I disagree with that. Simply because shiny cards shouldn’t be so important, and hard to get.
They shouldn’t be the main aspect of the game. People should play the game for the game, and not for the Cobalt.
And seriously, I think everyone who quits the game just because he can’t get a card with a blue skin instead, is an idiot.
[spoiler]And before someone says: “Oh u play long time, you have Cobalts, you just don’t want new players to get one”. FYI: I have one Cobalt from a random case. I never used it, and I don’t like the skin. I don’t find Cobalts appealing.[/spoiler]

(B_Montiel) #13

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;200165”][quote=“B. Montiel;200159”]Where’s the dev/editor income in all this ?

Keep in mind, 100 000 Credits is not that much for long time players. Thus they have no interest in putting money into the game. Honestly, SD already mentioned multiple times they won’t change the overall €/$ - game credits balance by much, and same for the crafting system, where the current or past crafting system will remain as a reference for a global cobalt cost.

I’d definitely vote for a significant down in expert/elite case price (with a respectful compensation to anyone who already spend prior to that) and a reliable way to obtain weapon kits through credits and real money. Crafting adjustments to this extent, no. That’d definitely kill the game by making the money income dry.[/quote]

Then maybe they should give us more reason to spend our money then, or get steam market in the game already.

Because the same could be said about the playerbase, people no longer feel like playing cause it takes too long to get cards they want. Throw that in with people who don’t want to play as a team and well, you get people coming and going on a regular basis.[/quote]

Steam market is not going to solve anything here. And it won’t be profitable for SD/Nexon either. But the other part is definitely true, and I’d support alternate merc models accessible through real money only. And they have plenty of other options that would be profitable to everyone, like taking a share on community server rents.

People are not leaving mainly because of that. This might be a part indeed, but leaving or either staying just to gather skins in this game is a great proof of stupidity. Or that would mean that a Horse Riding multiplayer title with cosmetic and trades in it would be a critical success. I had friends who played this game, who also went deep in cs:go lotto and market, and they left mainly because of the lack of content, bugs, and the big mess servers are (weird tunings, bad mm, no community servers…).

I’m actually staggered that people are still not coping with the fact that bronze is the bread and butter of this game, above is just luxury, which generates effortless rants. Just play the game. There are way more important topics that are almost never raised, but are crucial for the life expectancy of this game.

(watsyurdeal) #14

[quote=“B. Montiel;200258”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;200165”][quote=“B. Montiel;200159”]Where’s the dev/editor income in all this ?

Keep in mind, 100 000 Credits is not that much for long time players. Thus they have no interest in putting money into the game. Honestly, SD already mentioned multiple times they won’t change the overall €/$ - game credits balance by much, and same for the crafting system, where the current or past crafting system will remain as a reference for a global cobalt cost.

I’d definitely vote for a significant down in expert/elite case price (with a respectful compensation to anyone who already spend prior to that) and a reliable way to obtain weapon kits through credits and real money. Crafting adjustments to this extent, no. That’d definitely kill the game by making the money income dry.[/quote]

Then maybe they should give us more reason to spend our money then, or get steam market in the game already.

Because the same could be said about the playerbase, people no longer feel like playing cause it takes too long to get cards they want. Throw that in with people who don’t want to play as a team and well, you get people coming and going on a regular basis.[/quote]

Steam market is not going to solve anything here. And it won’t be profitable for SD/Nexon either. But the other part is definitely true, and I’d support alternate merc models accessible through real money only. And they have plenty of other options that would be profitable to everyone, like taking a share on community server rents.

People are not leaving mainly because of that. This might be a part indeed, but leaving or either staying just to gather skins in this game is a great proof of stupidity. Or that would mean that a Horse Riding multiplayer title with cosmetic and trades in it would be a critical success. I had friends who played this game, who also went deep in cs:go lotto and market, and they left mainly because of the lack of content, bugs, and the big mess servers are (weird tunings, bad mm, no community servers…).

I’m actually staggered that people are still not coping with the fact that bronze is the bread and butter of this game, above is just luxury, which generates effortless rants. Just play the game. There are way more important topics that are almost never raised, but are crucial for the life expectancy of this game.[/quote]

The problem is playing the game, means playing as a team.

It assumes everyone is on the same mindset, but these days people simply do not want to do that.

It’s getting harder and harder to force people to work together, and I can’t help but feel like if we never had a loadout system, or cards, or hell we just went with a very basic and simple 4 class system, and just had tutorials for each class and ways to practice and get better with each, how would this game be?

Maybe I’m just being pessimistic at this point, but simply telling me to play the game, while I do enjoy it more than any other shooter, the people I’m forced to play it with really do affect my experience with it.

Maybe that’s why all these threads about balance pop up, but no real solution is going to work. The problem isn’t so much the game as it is the mindset of the players and the community the come into it. The cosmetics are nice bright side to things, “well my team is terrible but hey I got what I need for that card I want”.

Makes you feel less like you’re wasting your time trying to play a game you love, with people who simply do not care. We should come in with the mindset that we have to work together to get things done as a team, not, I’m going to do what I want. But that’s just not who we play with these days.

Yea…definitely just being pessimist at this point.