spawntimer

(Protekt1) #21

[QUOTE=Kendle;462613]It would be a case of cost -v- reward. If the penalty were too long the tactical use of /kill would be rendered mostly worthless, so why have spawn waves? Might as well all spawn separately some time after you die. In that sense it stops being integral to the tactics both teams would otherwise employ, and yet the game would still work, ergo it was never “essential” to begin with.

If the penalty was short enough to NOT undermine the ability to tactically re-group, why have a penalty? If the penalty was 5 seconds, and you knew the next spawn wave was 10 seconds from now, you’d /kill in 4 seconds time rather than 9. What has imposing that extra 5 seconds achieved?

Do you see where I’m coming from? A penalty is only a penalty if it penalises you for pursuing a course of action. If it’s not a sufficient deterrent why impose it? If it is a sufficient deterrent just remove the thing the penalty is supposed to deter you from doing, spawning in waves.[/QUOTE]

Well to answer briefly since I am on my tablet and have to go… those 5 seconds would be time where you are removed from the game, you lose 5 seconds of map awareness, enemies can take advantage of your absence, and all the other disadvantages down time has.

(Kendle) #22

/kill removes you from the game already. /kill already provides your enemy with the advantage of your absence. The only difference is the amount of time you’re absent. Just add “penalty” seconds to the spawn time, same difference.

(shaftz0r) #23

you’ve clearly never played rtcw/et. its one of the msot important aspects of the competitive environment. pushing on spawn times to get a plant down, paying attention to how many go out full, making sure that YOU dont go out full and have uneven rushes. there’s quite a few reasons why spawn timers can make or break a competitive fps game. obviously they dont matter in pewpew generic games like cod and css

(prophett) #24

+1 for spawn timers and true spawn waves in obj and sw

(Protekt1) #25

Nice incorrect assumption about me. I’ve played both games when they were new and I even played rtcw on multiple platforms (pc+OG xbox). ET was released when I was in college, being a free game it saved me a ton of money. Funny that you bring up two games, in an attempt to be derisive, that don’t even have respawns in their competitive modes.

(INF3RN0) #26

Spawn timer and slash kill are ways to maximize lifetimes and promote regrouping. It’s an essential part of the game experience in pub and comp if you want to increase your chance at winning and have a hugely less frustrating experience. I’d say the reason why we don’t have it yet is because most times only the comp crowd understood its proper use and purpose. That’s just part of having a higher understanding of the game. We should be trying to convince SD to bring it back asap by suggesting how to make it more apparent to the pub imo. An obvious flaw with the pub vs comp is how much vital content to game experience is not realized in the pub and should be.

(shaftz0r) #27

it wasnt an attempt at being derisive at all. continuing to champion a conversation about how /kill should be penalized and/or removed is weird. it’s obvious that you’re a pub player (which is fine) if you dont understand why spawn waves instead of personal spawn times, makes far more sense. sorry if you take that as a personal affront, dont really mean it that way

(iwound) #28

[QUOTE=Anti;462496]
We still want to test/do the following:

[ul]
[li]Try stopwatch spawn waves in Objective mode again[/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

fantastic i was worried it wasnt going to happen. though i didnt know it had been done before.

(montheponies) #29

If you want to avoid overloading new players with information on the HUD, you could always have the spawntimer shown in the scoreboard for Obj, whilst having it on the hud somewhere for SW.

And spawnwaves for both modes should be a given - it’s the same core game, so glad to hear that is still on the cards to be tried.

As for the argument against /kill, I was going to cite the case of changing class in a timely manner but then remembered this is no longer necessary :slight_smile:

(nailzor) #30

[QUOTE=Anti;462496]Just to be clear, because people keep posting incorrect stuff, the system as it stands right now is:

Objective:

[ul]
[li]Attackers get a short spawn wave[/li][li]Defenders get a fixed 15 second personal spawn time[/li][/ul]

Stopwatch:

[ul]
[li]Attackers get a 15 second spawn wave[/li][li]Defenders get a 25 second spawn wave[/li][/ul]

We still want to test/do the following:

[ul]
[li]Try stopwatch spawn waves in Objective mode again[/li][li]Adjust the spawn wave times per team, per objective, on each map - for better balance[/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

What is in the game currently are not spawn waves, they are simply spawn times…

You can die and if your body is not gibbed then you can spawn at any time you wish after your current timer has gone to 0 seconds. “Press spacebar to spawn” should be more like, “press spacebar to release from your body and wait to spawn at the next wave”

Same can be said for if you die, wait the til the timer reaches and it prompts you to spawn, then get revived and die again - often times you can still spawn right away.

Spawn WAVE = you either spawn, or you wait another 15/25 seconds then spawn again.

Objective and Stopwatch should have the same spawn wave mechanics, but objective servers be simply that… Objective. Basically only half of what Stopwatch is. Anything else makes little sense.

Please to fix.

(TS420) #31

Killing off is for changing classes as needed for objective or to have a full team push. Is used often in comp and an important key bind. Catching the other teams spawn timer to know when they spawn is huge. Used often to hold a team to spawn in comp or knowing were they might be at on the map during a push.

(Protekt1) #32

I wasn’t born yesterday, please spare me your fake apologies. Making assumptions about other people in an attempt to discredit appears to be your thing. Your reference to cs+cod as a “pewpew” generic shooter in response to me was fully understood.

I am not championing anything. I am expressing an opinion and was having a conversation around it. You don’t appear to understand my position in the first place seeing as you are remarking about spawn waves versus personal spawns which is a mile off mark; not even in the same neighborhood. I am for spawn waves in both modes. I am for spawn timers in both modes with one minor caveat of a 5-10 second mandatory spawn time for suicide. It is ultimately the dev’s decision but everyone should be allowed to give feedback without the ad hominid arguments which honestly are a waste of time and juvenile.

Once again I find myself setting the record straight against your assumptions which are frankly becoming increasingly obnoxious. I am not just a pub player but you assume so to discredit me or for whatever misguided reason you have. I mainly play fps for comp/ladders. I only pub as a second resort.

(nailzor) #33

RTCW and ET both have spawn waves and respawns in their competitive modes by the way. Not sure why you think RTCW/ET did not have respawns in comp mods. The comp mod for RTCW with OSP did not really play with spawn times that much, it simply added features. ET-Pro much the same.

Technically I guess I should say these games “had” that feature as they are both not thriving as they were many years back. RTCW competitive scene is solely alive through one online tournament currently (EU/USA mainly) and the ET scene is based on similar type ‘Cups’ beld on EU Clanbase website. — Yet they still use the same spawn times and spawn waves they have for years and years.

(DarkangelUK) #34

Currently, to me anyway, there’s no fear of dying and that’s for a couple of reasons.

1: You’re never instagibbed: There’s no overkill in this game, no matter if the moon fell out the sky and landed on you, you’d just be incapacitated and able to be revived. This also takes away the fear from any weapons for me. In RtCW if you heard that nade clunk at your feet, or heard the fire-up sound of the panzer, or saw the smoke for an airstrike, you ran your little ass out of the way pronto or you knew you were gonna be gibbed and going straight to the respawn queue… no medic was saving your ass after that. I’ve noticed I play much more sloppy because of this.

2: Short respawn times: Again I just don’t care about dying because I know i’ll be back in the fight in no time, and this seems to bring about the meat grinder effect. Spawn, run, die, rinse, repeat. Again the fear is gone of leaving your team at a disadvantage by not being there and losing an objective due to rambo playstyle, and again this promotes sloppy play… I take more risks knowing i’ll be back in no time.

3: You’ll never miss a spawn, even by accident: Doesn’t matter if I forget to tap out, take my mind off the game and watch TV for a few secs, alt+tab to IRC to call Pytox a loser, I’m still gonna make my spawn. I liked the little mini-game that came with being downed in RtCW… do you miss the next spawn wave and hope a medic revives you? Do you wait till the last possible second before tapping out just in case a medic turns the corner? Do you tap out in plenty time to be sure you make the next wave only for a medic to run past your lifeless corpse a second later? Do you know a medic is on his way and weigh up the chances of not being gibbed before he arrives knowing you’ll miss the next wave but you’re very close to the objective? So much of the thought process from previous games is being taken away, the little things that made something as simple as being incapacitated all that more exciting

Basically dying is easy with very few risks these days and I just don’t care if it happens to me.

(Kendle) #35

^ totally agree with all that, and Protekt1’s idea of adding a mandatory 5 - 10 second penalty for /kill addresses none of those issues. Proper spawn waves, further apart, would give each life far more meaning, and force players to weigh up the risk / reward of /kill far more than adding a penalty would.

(Ashog) #36

[QUOTE=Anti;462496]Just to be clear, because people keep posting incorrect stuff, the system as it stands right now is:

Objective:

[ul]
[li]Attackers get a short spawn wave [/li][li]Defenders get a fixed 15 second personal spawn time [/li][/ul]

Stopwatch:

[ul]
[li]Attackers get a 15 second spawn wave [/li][li]Defenders get a 25 second spawn wave [/li][/ul]

We still want to test/do the following:

[ul]
[li]Try stopwatch spawn waves in Objective mode again [/li][li]Adjust the spawn wave times per team, per objective, on each map - for better balance [/li][/ul]
[/QUOTE]

Right, but I don’t see how that prevents you from having a spawn timer displayed?
Just make it so that the timer always shows 15 seconds for defenders on obj mode. The rest should be normal ticking spawn timers.

Does that mean if a fixed spawn time for defenders in obj mode stays in the game, we will never get a spawn timer?

(Protekt1) #37

[QUOTE=nailzor;462710]RTCW and ET both have spawn waves and respawns in their competitive modes by the way. Not sure why you think RTCW/ET did not have respawns in comp mods. The comp mod for RTCW with OSP did not really play with spawn times that much, it simply added features. ET-Pro much the same.

Technically I guess I should say these games “had” that feature as they are both not thriving as they were many years back. RTCW competitive scene is solely alive through one online tournament currently (EU/USA mainly) and the ET scene is based on similar type ‘Cups’ beld on EU Clanbase website. — Yet they still use the same spawn times and spawn waves they have for years and years.[/QUOTE]

I was talking about cs+cod, search and destroy and demolition being 1 life modes.

(nailzor) #38

Sorry if I misunderstood, you quoted him speaking about RTCW and ET and that is what I was responding to :slight_smile: Considering he mentioned in games like cod/cs it did not matter type deal. Oh well, forum confusion + 1.

(shaftz0r) #39

yes there is O_o happens to me all the time. explosions will insta-gib

spawn waves absolutely needs to be the norm for this game. i understand from a “cater to pub players” perspective, but the current system really makes people run in ones-twos and get slaughtered for the most part. take white chapel. attackers are escorting the EV. without spawn waves, theres almost no chance of stopping it at all. its one or two people firing against a whole team, and its perpetuated in every map where you dont spawn right on an obj. i can see pub players getting infuriated with a half of a map run, just to get there and the entire team is dead over and over again.

(Anti) #40

[QUOTE=Ashog;462777]Right, but I don’t see how that prevents you from having a spawn timer displayed?
Just make it so that the timer always shows 15 seconds for defenders on obj mode. The rest should be normal ticking spawn timers.

Does that mean if a fixed spawn time for defenders in obj mode stays in the game, we will never get a spawn timer?[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say it would mean we won’t have a spawn timer, I’ll see what the UI guys think.