Spawnkilling?

[funkPig]

There is a very fine line between being an “evil” spawncamper and someone just playing a good game.

I think spawncamping came from earlier FPS’s that didn’t give spawners invincibility. These games were all about getting the most kills so spawncamping became a “good” tactic on gaining many easy kills. It became “honorable” to allow your opponent to run and get ready by getting body armor, guns, and ammo before comming and fighting you. As a side note that could start it’s own thread: why is this so honorable? Aren’t those games about kills?

ET isn’t about getting kills (much to some peoples surprise i’ll bet ), it is , IMO, a realistic warfare simulator, not just a FPS. Since I look at it as a “simulator” I consider a match a battle. Do you think that the Allies asked the Axis “Please don’t shell the beach” at Utah? Please.

There are some questionable game play practices though. Hiding in a spawn, swimming in the water on the beach (but, go ahead, i need a new pair of pants ), etc… But, shelling the spawn exit is part of the game.

If you dont like that kind of warfare, you should play the new revolutionary war mod where you all stand in a line and shoot at eachother.

–funkPig

[DrGratis]

I haven’t said anything about this topic (or not recently)

The kind of spawn camping that is unacceptable is the hideing behind spawn to slaughter the player as the blue dot disappears…

Oasis axis 2nd spawn (not the old city) this seems to happen…

Now I know that the allies sortof need to go by here, but crouching at the back of spawn waiting for the players to lose their blue sheilds to not cool…

True it only works like once cause next time I am spinning arround, but still it sucks…

[Rippin_Kitten]

On oasis you have just enough time to either get up the stairway or through either side passage before your invulrnability runs out. You can run through airstrikes, arty fire, panzers, whatever and still get to safety. If you get stuck behind someone that doesn’t move at the start of spawn, you’re stuck hiding out until the fire clears.

Moral of the story: Press forward before you spawn to hit the ground running.

RK

[ETfonhome]

thanks for your input- gee, i thought i would get mostly flamed for my opinion; seems like most responses were a little LESS sympathic to spawn killing accusations…
the thing is ive gotten better at mortaring- once i get a feel for where axis are hanging around, its pretty much aim, click, megadeath for the other team- without dropping mortars on their spawn point.
i know its frustrating when youre on the other end: spawn- get killed in 2 seconds, wait for respawn…
yesterday someone spent the whole game accusing me for spawnkilling-
i lobbed mortars from the old city in oasis to the sand outside the axis spawn- not ON the tent but the area outside the building to the left of the spawn tent. axis respawns, entire group turns left, BLAMMO!
uh, go straight? turn right? dont follow the herd?!

geeez, gimmie a break! :banghead:

[Hugo_Phurst]

Yea, like many ppl have said (but maybe not in this way) spawn camping only works when the team being “camped” falls for it.

Like if we take rail gun (axis) as the example (since this is the one most ppl complain about camping on). GET THE TUG!!! this is what this level is all about. Getting the tug to the depot yard, loading ammo, etc. etc.

Usually the “spawn camping” gets out of hand on this map because your on a team (term used losely) that doesn’t know about teamwork, and going after the objectives.

All too often I see the axis trying to do some sort of deathmatch thing with the allies on the other side of the walls outside of the spawn. GET THE TUG! The spawn camping on this level at least to me, is to distract you from completing the objectives (which on public servers is easy to do eh?)

If the axis simply went after the train, and keeps going after the train, the allies will have to follow (assuming they are trying to play like a team too, and if they’re not all the more easy for axis to win)

Just go after the train. Even if you get killed, you’ve moved the train farther away from the spawn. And, therefore moved the allies back some too. Granted they will move the tug back, but don’t let them. hmmn… I wonder why it’s called a tug Keep after it and keep moving it. Allies will follow it, and the rest of your team, or the next spawn wave might get a chance to be shooting at their backs.

I think too many ppl are used to playing deathmatches where the objective is to kill the other team and this game is more about killing the other team as being a byproduct of completing the objectives at least IMO.

[BlackDeath]

Some spawn camping is built into the map.

Like Goldrush, spam ops can airstrike and arty the spawn itself. And we all know how hard it is to squeeze out when there are 15-20 other people on your team.

Others, like Railgun, happen because one team is overwhelmingly better than the other. XP shuffle can help prevent this.

Oasis, when Allies capture old city, turns into one of the spammiest maps of all. However, no one will wait until the allies go through the tunnels/building before they start attacking. I figure to only way to gain kills is join the spawn raping.

Mortar spawn camping is the worst. Requires no skill whatsoever. Its the lamest spawn killing ever. Especially on Railgun.

B_D

[Hugo_Phurst]

“Mortar spawn camping”- sounds like an oxy-moron to me. Mortars fire almost all the way across the map, so how can someone with a mortar be camping in your spawn (unless they are a really bad and stupid mortarer :blah: )

Although I agree, it sucks to be killed by a good mortar soldier just seconds after the spawn I disagree with the statement about it taking no skill. Sitting in the enemy spawn and waving a flame thrower all around takes no skill.

With mortars you have to figure out where and how to line up your shots. And, you have to pay attention to the spawn waves to know when to make your shots. It’s no good to just keep mortaring the same spot over and over and hoping that there will be an enemy unlucky/lucky enough to be there. You have to know where and when to make your well placed and well timed round take it’s full effect.

Have you used a mortar before, it’s not this easy thing that you’re making it out to be. (like point rocket at general area that the enemy is in and click the mouse) I think you’re just complaining cause you’ve gotten owned by some talented mortar-ers too often.

[The_Tick]

{}Yojimbo hits it on the head - i think most people’s problem with spawnkilling stems from the experience where one team completely dominates the other for the majority of the game - when one team is doing this it’s not fun for anyone (well hardlyanyone). People instantly complain about this now because they fear this situation even if there is little chance of it happening.
I’ve noticed, however, that it only really happens to a particular side on a few maps: allies on fuel dump and battery; and axis on the railgun in particular. It seems to me that it’s really a flaw in the design of these levels specifically

• Axis has too many tactical advantages early on in fueldump there is only one choke point (the bridge and grate, the footbridge side is irrelevant since you can’t get to the dump that way), that, coupled with the high ground and good lines of sight make it a miracle the allies ever get going.
• On the railgun the Allies’ depot yard spawn point is just too close to the axis. Also the axis spawn’s exit to the rest of map is way too narrow and too long, freshly killed allies spawning at the depot yard can still catch axis escaping out of their spawn, giving the axis no chance to move on to their objectives.
• The Allies’ problem on the battery isn’t really spawn camping, it’s holding on to the advances that they make, they really need to be more skilled and have a numerical advantage to beat the axis - it’s the fundamental problem of all of the maps where spawncamping is an issue.

I think that slightly modifying those maps would virtually eliminate the problem. I sugest the following modifications to improve game play:

Add a new valley or tunnel that connects the depot yard to the axis spawn on railgun. Remove the wall seperating the axis spawn from the train yard, either bring the Axis hut closer to the trainyard, or enlarge the valley that leads from the hut to the trainyard. Even simpler, just eliminate the depot yard spawn.
On the fuel depot I would move the tunnel grate closer to the allied spawn and further from the bridge. Also a hill or other obstruction between the tunnel MG tower and the foot bridge might help. Placing a spawn flag in the axis’ first spawn (like in oasis and radar) could also help.
The battery is tougher, but two simple changes would be to increase the number of allied spawns in the bunker so much more of the team spawns there (I’ve never seen more than 2 spawn there) and make the assault ramp only destructible by dynamite (even better if the dynamite can only be placed on the bottom of the ramp).

The point of these changes is giving the spawners a reasonable chance to get away from the spawn when the their team is slightly outnumbered or out classed, thus forcing the defenders to actually defend, making attacking (which is what spawncamping fest really is, a defending team who is only and entirely attacking) a loosing strategy.

my $.02 anyway.

[Pamper]

If the axis simply went after the train, and keeps going after the train, the allies will have to follow

Wrong response. If the Axis are getting spawncamped into the railgun hut, chances are they have no way to recover (getting spawncamped means your teammates just can’t fight very well).

However, to have any chance, you need to get the depot yard first, and then worry about the tug. One medic or covert should try to sneak around the Allies and flag the depot yard, so 50% of your team can spawn there and be safe from initial bombardment. Then you can try for the tug.

If Axis just run out of the hut and try to push the tug forward a little, they just become panzerbait. And the Allies can drive it all the way back before you respawn. Breaking through to the depot yard is much easier in comparison, because there are many paths to take there.

[_rD_Killjoy]

:disgust: I really agree with whoever said that this is a simulator. There are ALWAYS two routes out of a spawn point. Spawn killing is good practice; it delays enemy movement (when the enemy exhibits intelligence, of course.) If I spawn killed going the same route twice, I’m taking the long route next time. If you’re not smart enough to do that little bit, I don’t want you on my team. Unless you’re gonna be a medic and catch some bullets for me.

[Borsuk]

I disagree that Battery is so hard for Allies.

Good mortar soldier + COvert Op for clearing bunker is great cover. If Field Op throws 1-2 ammo packs for mortar per spawn - sweet… After firing all mortar rounds soldier still has 4 handgrenades for clearing the bunker.

Then when the ramp is constructed and path cleared, engy goes straight to Gun Controls before West Bunker is captured - good chance to catch Axis off guard.

Covert Op should be one of west bunker attackers - smoke grenade helps alot, and it’s good chance to steal uniform. Also good chance to be teamkilled on your way back. Nevermind.

[Kamel]

WTF!? lmfao…

i don’t know how you all got into this camping shit, but the topic of discussion here is supposed to be spawn killing, not spawn camping.

and to void your theory Hugo Phurst, how the hell are you supposed to get objectives completed if you are not able to stay alive long enough to walk 5 feet?

anyway, it doesn’t matter who falls for it, the only real way to stop spawn camping is well… by having everyone agree not to do it if they dont do it to you. other than that, there isn’t a whole lot the other team can do about it… though i will say that it is normally the victims fault of why they are being “spawn camped” – because if they were the stronger team, i would never see this as a problem. i like everything to be fair and fun… and i don’t think “spawn camping”, OR spawn killing are either.

as my personal solution, i will play on servers which don’t allow spawn camping. if you can’t find any more inventive ways to “earn” your kills than that, then i don’t want to have the pleasure of playing with you.