Some feedback (long read): mercs & UI


(Szakalot) #1

some feedback here, mercs and clunky UI. Balance suggestions for merc in [b]bold text

[/b]

  • Mercs:
  • Sawbonez

Decent gun, but doesn’t compare to what is best out there. He can be deadly, opening with triple HS, but scales badly over prolonged engagements. Very versatile healing ability. Similarly to QW, character’s movement adds momentum to thrown packs, allowing heal reaching farther than any other medic (at the moment). Probably the most balanced medic out there.

  • Phoenix

Healing pulse can be clutch when teammates clump up, otherwise Phoenix has the weakest heal of them all. Also very bad at keeping himself at top health. Self-revive makes this the most combat-oriented medic, provided you have a loadout card with a non-default gun! The default gun was never good since I’ve played (August2014), but now that all the other weapons have been buffed, and this one wasn’t, it is probably the worst weapon in the game, including all secondaries and melees. Overall well balanced, I think self-revive is in a perfect spot right now, it would be nice to see his default gun have some use though.

  • Aura

Fastest runspeed in the game already makes this character the merc-of-choice if you want to revive: as speed is more important for medics than for any other class. Add to that a powerful shotgun, largely outclassing Sawbonez&Phoenix weapons, and there is very little reason to consider other options. If you weren’t convinced, have a healing station which can be swiftly relocated, then dropped in a fraction of a second and turn any 1v1 into a laughfest. Not the easiest medic to play, but with the highest potential, in particular due to speed and damage. That’s right; the healing station is the least OP element of Aura.
Speed+damage = does not compute. Healing station can be easily balanced by twiddling with HP (I’d like to see it little more fragile against AOE weapons, to really highlight that weakness), heal rate, healing/not damaged characters, etc. The present speed and dps of this medic are off the charts compared to Sawbonez&Phoenix who are largely support characters. Aura can Rambo it out with the best of them.

  • Thunder

I saw many people complain about Thunder since this build and I’m not entirely sure why. Very nice gun, could perhaps do slightly more damage (or have a better HS multiplier), however 80 bullets and lots of HP allow for holding on during the longest firefights, winning many engagements by attrition only. Unlike Fragger, his nade was not buffed in any noticeable way, and has great potential; but often ends up being harder to use than just shooting the enemies down.
Buff Thunder’s ability: e.g. make him partially resistant to his own flashbangs (e.g. faster recovery, shorter fuse), which will permit a little bit more freedom to use it, and also find use for it. I’d like to think of myself as an experienced nader, and my grenade launcher or fragger’s nades usually go where I want. I find it much harder to use flashbangs effectively, without blinding myself.

  • Fragger

One of the best weapons in the game, loads of HP and amazing grenades probably make Fragger the most k/d skewed character. Nothing wrong with that, as the mercs name suggests. Nades are the true OP element of fragger, ability to cook them and high fly speed makes it almost impossible to survive an encounter with an experienced fragger.
My debuff of choice is nades fly-speed. It doesn’t limit fragger’s potential, but makes him less consistent in scoring multikills, requires higher skill level to use effectively, and most importantly allows the victim to dodge – at least partially – the impending doom. Toning down nades’ gibbing ability could also go a long way to reduce frustration people have when fighting good fraggers.

  • Rhino

Highest HP in the game, and a very potent mini-gun make Rhino very nicely balanced. He will mow down any enemy in close quarters, but requires medic support to hold out. Flanked by FOP or a long-distance merc, he will go down quickly. I expect a fate similar to flamethrower-soldier in ET. Blast to play in a PUB, people will still find uses for him in comp. However, he’ll generally be avoided, due to his low speed and weakness to ranged opponents.

  • Stoker

Excellent gun, ammo station is a nice ability, and his Molotov finally found some use in the game. I think he got a little overtuned however, as properly thrown Molotov can kill most players in close quarters.
Flames have to go one of the two ways: high damage over short time, or area-denial low damage in longer time. At the moment it deals a lot of damage (direct hit kills any light merc, will almost-kill mediumHP mercs), and 30hp from touching the flames can be very punishing. The time it takes for the flames to burnout is also on the looooong side, and unlike other area-denial abilities, its very hard to avoid. I’ve often seen myself or others literally standing at the edge of the smoke waiting for it to go out. Not fun! I’d personally keep the damage potential, esp. to counter light mercs, but make the flame go out by a second or two faster.
Skyhammer
His M4 got a nice buff, and is probably the best middle-sized weapon in the game: easy to use and amazing in the hands of ET-tracking veteran. Skyhammer got slowed down a little which fits his tankier-fops profile. Ability is fine where it is, I miss the flare-smoke from ET/QW fopses to help opponents spot where its coming from, and it would be nice to have more time to align yourself with the best angle you want the airstrike to come in at.
If Echo stats don’t show his weapon to be too OP: he’s fine.
Arty
Nice gun & quicker arty-spotting put Arty in a very nice support-fops position. I’d like the arty to go down from the sky just a little faster. At the moment Arty is inferior to other ammo-givers and apart from specific arty setups, he won’t find much use in comp.


(Szakalot) #2
  • Proxy

Proxy was always one of the most used mercs in the game, mostly due to speed, very useful as the objective-pointwoman. Shotguns are very strong & easy to use at the moment, so typically you will see at least 2-3 Proxies running around, throwing mines and blasting everyone to pieces.
Low HP and lack of heal make her less OP in combat compared to Aura, but her usefulness as the objective-doer is too good to pass up. Must pick in comp, for both offense and defense, very spammy in pubs. Apart from the shotgun conundrum, Proxy can be very frustrating due to her mines. No need to arm, no need to think where you put it; just throw it around wherever action is, preferably while enemies are busy shooting someone else. My debuff of choice is making the mines explode only after they have been armed. A mine shot down before arming itself will fizzle out as a dud. This will promote smarter use of mines, and less random throwing them at the feet of the enemies.

  • Fletcher

One of the weaker shotguns, but still quite effective as a finisher, very decent secondary (I love that weapon for some reason), and awesome stickies. The beefiest of the engineers, mostly useful on defense when locking down chokepoints; sticky bombs have amazing potential to stop pushes, and are crazy fun to use.
Perhaps the amount &/or cooldown of stickybomb are little too good right now. Lowering max amount to 3 might make him little less annoying to fight, but I haven’t seen a lot of players figure out how to use the bombs very effectively, so it is hard to judge.

  • Bushwacker

Used to be one of the most annoying characters in the game, but got debuffed lots and hardly anyone plays him anymore. Not impactful enough for a 5v5 comp, and mostly scores kills when holding major chokepoints with his whole team. I’m not sure what happened to his gun, but it feels not nearly as deadly as it used to be a couple builds back.
Turret used to be very annoying but its DPS has been nerfed and it hardly makes an impact on the game. His cooldown was also increased (~90sec?)

  • Vassili

Nothing really changed, just your run of the mill sniper. His heartbeat sensor works in pulses which is definitely preferable over consistent wallhack.
Maybe sensor lasts a little too long, as another one is ready just after the previous one expired, allowing for little too much spammage.

  • Red Eye

The pubs punisher, Red Eye is my personal favorite merc. His default gun is powerful but not easy to use, his smoke also seems less impactful then it used to be. Enemies tend to see through the smoke better, and once you’ve been hit you will keep on getting hit.
I’ve seen one RedEye sporting a loadout with a sniper rifle that one-body-shot light mercs. Terrible idea, no weapon should insta kill full hp mercs with a single body shot. He is fine otherwise as a spotter/support character.

  • Nader

Nader got one less max nade, but nothing really changed. Amazing in the hands of very good ex-Quake veterans, somewhat inconsistent for the average player. Martyrdom is in a perfect spot, easy to counter but still finds its uses amidst all the chaos.
Her nades are still quite spammy, and frustrating to fight against, when facing a good opponent. Either up the cooldown a bit, or go max 3 nades, that refresh up to 3 at each spawn


(Szakalot) #3
  • UI

UI really needs a massive overhaul. Every single action takes 3-1010 more clicks than necessary, Limbo menu has none of the ET/QW appeal, and downtime between games will piss people off to no end.
Let us look at some examples of trying to get through UI as fast as possible:
[list]
[] opening a crate
[/list]
[list=1]
[
] open the inventory
[] scroll through a bunch of cards, that slooowly load from the server
[
] find the crate
[] click on the crate
[
] click unlock
[] click skip (we are trying to get back into the game ASAP, right?)
[
] click next (yup, you have to click ‘next’ after you clicked ‘skip’)
[*] click close

  • changing merc loadout (in main menu)

no idea how???

  • changing merc loadout (in-game lobby)

click on one of the mercs
wait for the merc icons to load
select one of the icons
wait for the loadouts to load
[/list]

  • OOPS – you ran out of time, enjoy loading the map without your changed merc selection
  • sometimes you’re not going to get to select that loadout – too bad
  • sometimes you will get in the in-in-game lobby: now you can pick out the loadouts at your leisure
[list=1]

[] shame the game is already on! have fun defending the 2nd objective, cause your team couldn’t hold out the first one
[
] pick a loadout
[/list]

  • shame you can’t examine the weapons & augments in any detail
  • good luck trying to change another merc!

(MissMurder) #4

Thank you very much for all the feedback here! We do agree the UI could be a lot more user friendly for sure. The merc feedback is also really good to hear since you had an opportunity to try all of the available ones out.


(NuclearSharkhead) #5

Don’t forget how awkward it is to request ammo and medic through the voice commands system. IMO it should be much easier to do so in the middle of a big battle.


(Szakalot) #6

I think this is mostly due to player experience.

Good (and willing) players will revive and provide ammo till you’re too heavy to move!


(Rehoma) #7

I think this is mostly due to player experience.

Good (and willing) players will revive and provide ammo till you’re too heavy to move![/quote]

I want you in my team :x


(syku) #8

Redeye’s sniper(the FEL-IX) can only one shot aura with a bodyshot, all the other mercs either need 2 bodyshots or 1 headshot.

Auras shotgun has the potential to do the most damage but over range it is useless compared to Sawbonez and phoenix weapons.

all of the SMG are VERY close in ttk with phoenix smg lagging very slightly behind.


(Szakalot) #9

Thing is, with the way maps are now (maybe except dome), a decent player can wallhop their way to making any engagement close-combat.

I’d love to see the TTK stats for smgs, but Phoenix’s default feels absolutely terrible at the moment


(Jarppa) #10

Chat bindings would be awesome, like we had in Enemy Territory…

/bind I "vsay NeedAmmo ^4Ammoooo Please!!! "


(syku) #11

[quote=“Szakalot;3585”][quote=“syku;3582”]
Auras shotgun has the potential to do the most damage but over range it is useless compared to Sawbonez and phoenix weapons.
[/quote]

Thing is, with the way maps are now (maybe except dome), a decent player can wallhop their way to making any engagement close-combat.

I’d love to see the TTK stats for smgs, but Phoenix’s default feels absolutely terrible at the moment
[/quote]
https: // docs. google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=0 here is a link to a weapon comparison spreadsheet.


(Szakalot) #12

thx for the link!

Indeed it looks like the difference isn’t as huge as I thought, but its clear Phoenix’s default is inferior to what is out there. This is particularly painful considering Phoenix is supposed to be the most combat oriented medic (he has the least healing capacity)


(B_Montiel) #13

[quote=“Szakalot;3555”][list]
[*] Proxy
[/list]
[…]
Apart from the shotgun conundrum, Proxy can be very frustrating due to her mines. No need to arm, no need to think where you put it; just throw it around wherever action is, preferably while enemies are busy shooting someone else. My debuff of choice is making the mines explode only after they have been armed. A mine shot down before arming itself will fizzle out as a dud. This will promote smarter use of mines, and less random throwing them at the feet of the enemies.[/b]

[list]
[/quote]
Well, in disadvantegeous close combat situations (let’s say 1vs2+ and no escape) dropping a mine in front of your enemies is somehow the best bet you can possibly do with proxy. You’ll get shredded but you still have a chance to kill someone.

I’m a huge fan of the “trickshot” you’re able to do with the mine in this situation. Trying to drop some shotgun load on it and hope it will explode. In stand-offs, that’s really hard to do and it’s very rewarding. Not to mention that it still does less damage than a fragger’s nade. For me, that’s one of the coolest move you can do in combat right now.

Maybe mines should be more noticeable when they are unarmed. Maybe they should produce a sound or be highlighted.

I just don’t want to end with mines like W:ET where minefields were the bread and butter of the lame-ass defend side. Proxy would also become a full support merc with near zero offensive capabilities.


(Nail) #14

mines in W:ET were great, as were grenades, loved being engi
get lvl 4 battlesense after a couple maps and mines were no prob, but covops spotting also rendered them null.


(Szakalot) #15

That sounds fun and worth keeping, problem is that Proxy can just hop around dropping mines mindlessly, immediately denying a particular spot until you move away and shoot the mine. Particularly noticeable on delivery containers.

Its definitely also fun to blow up a mine that just got dropped and take Proxy with it, but I have a problem with how the mine immediately becomes a threat that has to be addressed. There is no way to take care of the mine without it exploding, is what im missing. Perhaps knifing the mine, or even very short pliers/blowtorch would disarm it (makes for a cool badge too)


(Rehoma) #16

[quote=“Szakalot;3653”][quote=“Bernard Montiel;3630”]
I’m a huge fan of the “trickshot” you’re able to do with the mine in this situation. Trying to drop some shotgun load on it and hope it will explode. In stand-offs, that’s really hard to do and it’s very rewarding. Not to mention that it still does less damage than a fragger’s nade. For me, that’s one of the coolest move you can do in combat right now.
[/quote]

That sounds fun and worth keeping, problem is that Proxy can just hop around dropping mines mindlessly, immediately denying a particular spot until you move away and shoot the mine. Particularly noticeable on delivery containers.

Its definitely also fun to blow up a mine that just got dropped and take Proxy with it, but I have a problem with how the mine immediately becomes a threat that has to be addressed. There is no way to take care of the mine without it exploding, is what im missing. Perhaps knifing the mine, or even very short pliers/blowtorch would disarm it (makes for a cool badge too)[/quote]

To be honest, this sounds a lot like C4 throwing in Call of Duty, which would be bad. I haven’t experienced this mechanic (or “trickshot”) myself yet, but I can imagine having it’s place in this game on a couple conditions*: it should be hard to do, it should be open to counter, yet it should be rewarding as well. Sounds like that may very well be the issue already, perhaps even better with some small tweaking. Exciting!

*Edited from “one condition”.


(B_Montiel) #17

First you have to deploy the mine, then try to hide while drawing your main weapon back (you might also step back ), and finally try to shoot the mine. So the enemy still have plenty of time to kill you. And he might get between you and the mine which can completely ruin the whole strategy because you won’t be able to hit it. So there’s plenty of ways to counter this.

[quote=“Szakalot;3653”]
That sounds fun and worth keeping, problem is that Proxy can just hop around dropping mines mindlessly, immediately denying a particular spot until you move away and shoot the mine. Particularly noticeable on delivery containers.

Its definitely also fun to blow up a mine that just got dropped and take Proxy with it, but I have a problem with how the mine immediately becomes a threat that has to be addressed. There is no way to take care of the mine without it exploding, is what im missing. Perhaps knifing the mine, or even very short pliers/blowtorch would disarm it (makes for a cool badge too)[/quote]

That is the problem with proximity mines as they are set right now. The damn thing just blow up whenever you enter the area.

And this is indeed very frustrating when you place them directly on the objective. Even worse, you can also use them as a warning signal using the HUD and the explosion sounds.

One way worth exploring : After tripping a mine, the player should have a minimum time to react and stop moving, in this case, he would be allowed to still fire, set an objective (…) and also defuse the mine with pliers/blowtorch. Wait, I think I’ve already seen this somewhere… :stuck_out_tongue: