Solo player be careful on rank mod

[ragnak]

@n-x said:
I really don’t get why are you salty about that. Ranked should be about team work and communication and try your best and use every advantage. You can’t complain about that people play the game how it is intended to be. If you want to play solo with some chance for team work, there is casual.

I agree though that the matchmaking was pretty bad for you since the solo queue team should consist of better individual players than the premade one.

Ranked is just another form for people to play casual matches, that actually record your progression, what you described is simply clan play. If you force people to team up just to compete you just turn it into a comp ladder, since without a proper team you dont really stand a chance at higher ranks (at some point individual skill is simply not enough to cover the lack in communication/synergy/team play, especially when said premade is made from top players).

Right now its unfair to everyone who doesnt que in a premade, it shouldnt be like that. The only time that dynamic que work is when premades are only matched with premades, Db doesnt have enough player base for that, SD knew that, they knew it didnt work in the past and there is no way that with current player base it can work now.

If they didnt want solo players to play then they should turn ranked into 5vs5 only and not punish solo players for wanting to play in a mode that record your progression.

[n-x]

@ragnak said:

@n-x said:
I really don’t get why are you salty about that. Ranked should be about team work and communication and try your best and use every advantage. You can’t complain about that people play the game how it is intended to be. If you want to play solo with some chance for team work, there is casual.

I agree though that the matchmaking was pretty bad for you since the solo queue team should consist of better individual players than the premade one.

Ranked is just another form for people to play casual matches, that actually record your progression, what you described is simply clan play. If you force people to team up just to compete you just turn it into a comp ladder, since without a proper team you dont really stand a chance at higher ranks (at some point individual skill is simply not enough to cover the lack in communication/synergy/team play, especially when said premade is made from top players).

Right now its unfair to everyone who doesnt que in a premade, it shouldnt be like that. The only time that dynamic que work is when premades are only matched with premades, Db doesnt have enough player base for that, SD knew that, they knew it didnt work in the past and there is no way that with current player base it can work now.

If they didnt want solo players to play then they should turn ranked into 5vs5 only and not punish solo players for wanting to play in a mode that record your progression.

And I kind of agree with that approach. DB is a team based game and I don’t see what the fuss is about that people are having a disadvantage if they play solo in a team based game.

I already admit, that something like in the screenshot should have never happened but otherwise, why should someone reach high gold or Cobalt with single queue when communication, synergy, tactics and so on are an integral part of the game, which he doesn’t display, when he plays solo. Like you said: individual skill can get you only to a certain rank and then you need team work.

If you get beaten by premades who would individually​ be worse than you, tough luck. Get some friends and beat them.

But I really don’t see the point complaining about players who put effort into getting better by organizing themselves and do what is necessary to reach a high rank. Nobody in his right mind complains about players learning spawn timers and killing people right after they spawn.
Even though it’s a skill new players don’t have and are helpless against but everyone needs to learn to advance over a certain point.

It’s the same with premades. You have to learn to play with a team to reach the next level. The same as you needed to learn to play with the spawn timer.

[Szakalot]

@n-x

playing solo doesnt mean you dont put the effort in when queueing up with other randoms, trying your best to make it work. current system suffers from the same problem as before restricting ranked to solo/duo.

after a certain skill threshold, good players will
be matched against a 5premade and have to carry players who are not only worse teamplayers, but generally have worse raw skills as well.

you can argue all day about how the game is ‘meant to be played’ but in the end this season will suffer the exact same problems as before: soloqueuers get pushed out, premades have nobody to fight against (other than a sporadic few premades) , and the whole ranked system will collapse. we have seen this before, and there is little to show that it will go differently this time

Unlike many other games, DB has probably one of the highest returns for queueing up with other people. Unless youre godlike and the premade you are up against is at best average, the outcome of the game is decided before its even started. This makes for very boring gameplay, from both sides (even though there are people who like to stomp opponents in their spawn for 15min)

[n-x]

@Szakalot i understand the problem, but I don’t see how catering to single players is any solution.

I know that you are a pretty good player and you can probably carry your way through the lower ranks and when you reach higher ranks you and the people you play with communicate or have enough experience to pull of team work anyway.

My point is: with only single or duo queue you have the same problem as with 4 or 5 men premade. When you single queue and end up with an experienced Fragger/sawbones combo that communicate well and keeps the enemy so busy that the rest of your team has hardly anything to do, is also not really fair. Have 2 teams of solos fighting each other but in one team they use in-game communication and listen to each other. They will win.

Communication and team work is just part of the game. And if you want to solo queue you give yourself a disadvantage and that’s your own fault.

I played last season several times with top players in a team and they went fucking mental because of mistakes I made. Same is for me when I get matched with a level 7 who has no idea what to do.

I completely agree that ranked is really not in a great shape, but gathering to solo players won’t fix that. Making people to form teams is, at least in my opinion, the only way to fix it. And if people want to solo queue it’s their absolute right, but then nobody should complain about getting stomped by premades or about the noobs in their teams or people dropping mid game.

[Szakalot]

well then, you acknowledge the outcome:

• soloqueue is a suicide (i guess its okay if your silver or whatever), people at high levels will not soloqueue
• ranked at higher levels will only consist of premades
• eventually premades get bored of looking for games and ranked is dead.

we had exactly the same situation before, and the exact same arguments were used. The main counter-argument i see: better a solo/duo queue than nothing at all. While its true that a good combo will make for a very difficult fight, its not impossible, not the way that a 5-premade is. You can still have an entertainig game, even if you lose. Plus, its just as likely that its the combo that has to carry 1-2 useless teammates; i recall games with exactly this scenario: combo couldnt consistently push of 5 players, when they have so much deadweight.

I also agree with Ragnak that ranked is just another pub mode, where you can track your progression. Atm. there is no casual MM available, so in order to play 5v5 ff-on, one has to queue up for ranked. And its a throw of a dice, when you soloqueue.

And just to enter the pissing contest a bit, In previous season i could comfortably soloqueue, and the games would never reach the stompy levels it does when facing a 5-premade, had some great games with good people on both sides, whether its 2-2-1 or 2-1-1-1; and a comfortable 80% winrate; which obviously isnt saying much, considering the abysmal chasm between skilled players and the potato chips.

[n-x]

@Szakalot i think we agree more with each other than we disagree. I think we mainly disagree on the consequences. I also agree on ranked being another pub mode. And I think this shouldn’t be the case.

I just don’t see how solo queue is doing ranked any favor. Having 4 or 5 men premade should be the norm and 1 and 2 the exceptions.

But to make this happen there needs to be a shift in SDs mentality and the players mentality.

And the first one is to get away from the solo player mentality. Maybe not catering to solo players will kill ranked in its current form but not changing ranked to a team based mode will make it a glorified pub forever. And that’s not what I personally want it to be.

[Szakalot]

@n-x said:
@Szakalot i think we agree more with each other than we disagree. I think we mainly disagree on the consequences. I also agree on ranked being another pub mode. And I think this shouldn’t be the case.

I just don’t see how solo queue is doing ranked any favor. Having 4 or 5 men premade should be the norm and 1 and 2 the exceptions.

But to make this happen there needs to be a shift in SDs mentality and the players mentality.

And the first one is to get away from the solo player mentality. Maybe not catering to solo players will kill ranked in its current form but not changing ranked to a team based mode will make it a glorified pub forever. And that’s not what I personally want it to be.

I appreciate the sentiment, but its not forthcoming, and i dont see what type of changes would suddenly encourage people to queue up as 5. DB would probably need a dedicated global lobby, basically discord; and I still dont think peeps would bother to group up.

[bgyoshi]

@M4st0d0n It’s a team based shooter

That allows solo queuing

Oops

Why isn’t Ranked 5-man premades only?

[M4st0d0n]

@bgyoshi said:
@M4st0d0n It’s a team based shooter

That allows solo queuing

Oops

Why isn’t Ranked 5-man premades only?

XD I dont know mate I’m just paraphrasing the game description on Steam.

"Work together or die alone! Fight to restore peace to London or tear it down for profit in the most challenging team based shooter around. "

Aint that a neat marketing blob.

[bgyoshi]

@M4st0d0n said:
XD I dont know mate I’m just paraphrasing the game description on Steam.

"Work together or die alone! Fight to restore peace to London or tear it down for profit in the most challenging team based shooter around. "

Aint that a neat marketing blob.

Yeah that means that players will be put on a team to play

Not that the game can’t be played without players having their own team

If SD didn’t have an interest in offering fair solo-queue team play, they wouldn’t allow solo queuing at all.

You’re mistaking a design oversight for a hazard to solo players.

Replace the word “team-based” with “not 1v1” and the game will be more accurately described

[Dawnlazy]

Um, in the game right before those 2 we queued as 3 and won against a party of 5 though lul.

Regardless you people put too much faith in MM, I have zero hope that a computer could ever account for human skill and build proper team, the purpose of ranked is just to grind for skins, and for that I’d rather have people I can count on queuing with me than be forced to play with randoms and win or lose based exclusively on luck of the draw.

[M4st0d0n]

@bgyoshi said:
If SD didn’t have an interest in offering fair solo-queue team play, they wouldn’t allow solo queuing at all.

You’re mistaking a design oversight for a hazard to solo players.

If you want 1vs1 ask for a duel mode.

Fairness for multiplayer game designers is not a priority. It has never been. Success for a multiplayer game is usually brought by a stable community, by groups of people mutually motivating each other to play and invest in vanity cosmetics. If SD incentivize people to team up, it’s certainly not a design oversight.

Just abandon all hope for fairness right now. Metas will be shifted, grinds will be added, balance will be randomly tweaked. You’ll eventually find good people to team up with, and get in this vicious cycle of time consuming fun.

[Cgz27]

All in all, people should just play ranked for fun/rewards as the game is still in “beta” and the more people who quit trying to improve/lose motivation the worse matchmaking will become as the player base decreases. ( I recommend playing now into mid season, avoiding the end of season)

I only barely made it into Gold at the end of last season because there were so few players at the end of the season stuck in Silver with me + players still trying to get into Cobalt/Elite lmao and the queues oh boy.

Also, for those who literally just install the game for ranked and then quit cus they end up sucking ass. Just … trust me when I say you are gonna have to play a lot longer than just lvl 7 to be at least silver officer ( preferably at least level 15 ).

I barely try hard in ranked and I feel I often did a little TOO well against a lot of the “silver” players. The only people I struggle against are the ones who end up stuck in Silver Officer/Master when I can tell they play almost as well as some Golds. And then the Cobalts ( who are mostly still in gold right now) are still working their way up.

And yes. I am a pure solo player.

I truly do not believe that players right now deserve to be mid-high silver unless they are fairly used to the maps and combat systems through level and experience in normals. Some players who’ve done very well in other shooters might have a better time ( like me) but even then, there is a good chance they will straight up lose because their style/knowledge is way too sub-optimal for completing the objective and winning a game like this.

So far.
2-1-7 Placements (Silver Agent) -> 10-1-8 (Silver Officer)

S2: 3-1-6 Placements (Bronze Master) -> Gold Recruit at 120+ games (slight positive W/L)

After placements, I only face a mix of unrankeds, Bronze Masters to at most Silver Master

[Cgz27]

Do you guys ever consider that its acceptable to be matched up against mid-high gold/cobalt players as a mid-high silver because the system wants to keep you at your rank?

Update:
After my placements I’ve gone 6 straight wins, one loss ( dockyard lmfao ), 45 straight win.

-I’m getting lucky with the last few wins where I’m getting kinda carried by high Golds BUT I still had to pull my weight, filling in really can help your team. Aura can be bae
-Queues are feeling longer now which can probably mean there aren’t many players up this high except for Gold players who might still be in their games so yea… (actually it might be because NA has more players during the day rather than night hmm…)

-Well after a good run, I ended up losing 4 in a row but it felt like I was playing a lot worse than usual (probably tired now) BUT another common theme in the losses were people giving up early and trying to ff and call team bad and worse all game (NONE of this happened in my close wins)
Also, after that I got matched up against with much weaker players where I almost had godlike. RIP
Still in Silver Officer tho

-and now I got demoted, aw man, stayed in queue too long so I got weird match ups and got too desperate to get wins back and ended up playing poorly myself, ah well. That’s what I get for being addicted. I always do better after a break though

-I actually ended up in a game with all bronzes as a Silver officer ( wow I guess the matchmaking really does put me with lower players too not just super high sometimes) and I lost because I didn’t adapt to both teams being kinda weaker than me. (cocky) ie. Let the enemy plant right in the middle of team when I had a chance to watch it myself. Team was so unaware that they even switched off engi…

-Anyway that’s the end of my ranked updates. (4-10pm PDT ish) Win/Loss evening out again now and I can tell that I had chances to carry but couldn’t fully pull it off due to tilting and what not. Felt tired being up too late I guess but surprisingly the last loss was one of my best performances but an unranked left after the first half for some reason (did he think it was not ranked? haha) and we ALMOST pulled off a 4v5… ( I still could have salvaged the game there too but oh well shout out to my team for trying their best)

Good luck in ranked guys and try to have fun o3o//

[Whetstone]

solo rank and team rank is what you want but it will never happen because of population problem

[AlbinMatt]

I got into a match as an Unranked, had a Silver Op. on our team, but the other three were Unranked as well.

The other team had 3 Silverados, a Bronzie, and an Unranked player who admitted he was a Gold Rec last season.

Insta GG.

[bgyoshi]

@M4st0d0n said:
Fairness for multiplayer game designers is not a priority. It has never been.
You’ll eventually find good people to team up with, and get in this vicious cycle of time consuming fun.

…Okay… sure… yeah…

[neverplayseriou]

@ragnak said:

@n-x said:
I really don’t get why are you salty about that. Ranked should be about team work and communication and try your best and use every advantage. You can’t complain about that people play the game how it is intended to be. If you want to play solo with some chance for team work, there is casual.

I agree though that the matchmaking was pretty bad for you since the solo queue team should consist of better individual players than the premade one.

Ranked is just another form for people to play casual matches, that actually record your progression, what you described is simply clan play. If you force people to team up just to compete you just turn it into a comp ladder, since without a proper team you dont really stand a chance at higher ranks (at some point individual skill is simply not enough to cover the lack in communication/synergy/team play, especially when said premade is made from top players).

Right now its unfair to everyone who doesnt que in a premade, it shouldnt be like that. The only time that dynamic que work is when premades are only matched with premades, Db doesnt have enough player base for that, SD knew that, they knew it didnt work in the past and there is no way that with current player base it can work now.

If they didnt want solo players to play then they should turn ranked into 5vs5 only and not punish solo players for wanting to play in a mode that record your progression.

Talking about things being unfair when you play like this:

You’re one of the people that makes ranked even worse than playing against a full premade.

[M4st0d0n]

@bgyoshi said:

@M4st0d0n said:
Fairness for multiplayer game designers is not a priority. It has never been.
You’ll eventually find good people to team up with, and get in this vicious cycle of time consuming fun.

…Okay… sure… yeah…

I see I left you speechless with my superior rethorics. Glad you see now this teambased game will be easier to play with a team. Dont hesitate to ask me for more enlightning yet simple advices.

[ragnak]

@neverplayseriou said:

You’re one of the people that makes ranked even worse than playing against a full premade.

Not really sure whats your point.

I guess its about my mercs choice ?

I am sorry that unlike you i dont play with a premade, so i cant just pick what i want, also blaming me for splash damage incompetence is a pretty low blow especially that teams you play in have no problem running fragger/aura/fletcher combos.

I will gladly explain why i use those mercs instead of others.

1. Ranked servers lags for me, sustain based weapons are simply not an option when my bullets dont register or there is such a huge delay that i lose half hp before my shoots start to register, take it as an excuse but any ranked server that isnt between 1-10 is a lag fest.
   I will even ignore warping.

2. Aura healing station is broken to the point that station itself is worth killing more than aura herself. I need something to deal with station since most teams tend to run 2 of them, and it so happens that both fragger and arty are actually the only good choices for this (while nader and fletcher can do that as well, its simply not as consistent and both arent exactly “fair” mercs either).

3. There are only 2 ways that MM works for me, i am either put with solo players against premades (that also tend to have higher ranks), so my team is already at disadvantage from the start or i am matched with high bronze/low silvers and i am suppose to carry them, which i really cannot with most mercs (thunder would work i guess, but you would consider him a “cancer” merc as well). Doesnt matter how good you are, you wont carry your team with a sawbones against semi competent team unless you have someone good to pocket heal, but since you dont know anyone from your team its a guess game.

4. I dont enjoy ranked AT ALL, i am just there to farm 3,5k points and as soon as i get there i will gtfo from ranked, like probably most people, enjoy your premade games when you wont have anyone to play against.

Also, i did not create the meta, i have no say about balance, i cant stop people from using fragger/aura/fletcher/redeye/thunder/arty or burst rifles, they will use it against me so why shouldnt i use it ? I will use optimal picks so i can win as many games as soon as possible, if you have problem with mercs/weapons balance you should probably talk about this with SD.
Premades also use said mercs so i honestly cant see how i am worse than a premade.

Premades trivialize ranked, make it unfair and there isnt even a single argument you can use to deny my statement outside of “premade yourself” which would only prove my point. There simply isnt enough players to make “dynamic que” possible and it was idiotic to enable premades in this season especially that SD already had experience with that and it was a shitty one. It would also be more productive if you attacked my arguments and not me.