So yea....counter play, let's talk about it.

(watsyurdeal) #21

[quote=“satisfyingCove;19153”][quote=“majesticClue;19035”]

It’s just a matter of flavor, that’s really what it comes down to. Do you want a Medic who’s built for offense, or defense?[/quote]

That’s exactly my point. I believe there’s a deep flaw in thinking that an offensive medic should exist. We have enough offensive mercs, there is no need for an offensive medic. It should be defensive, just as Aura. Medics are supposed to be support classes. At least that’s my opinion.[/quote]

Along with what the others have said it sounds like to me that you feel it’s unfair that Aura has to be played a certain way, and Saw doesn’t.

All I can say to that is well, try an SMG Aura, and sticking with people instead of going off on your own.

(Lumi) #22

I have an SMG aura and that smg has such poor accuracy that sticking to shotgun almost seems more viable. I haven’t tried sawbonez so I don’t know his weapons, maybe he has more accurate weapons which is why he almost always has the upper hand against a lower HP merc…

(watsyurdeal) #23

She has the Blishok if I recall, which is damn good if you control your shots and go for their head.

(Lumi) #24

[quote=“majesticClue;19240”]

She has the Blishok if I recall, which is damn good if you control your shots and go for their head.[/quote]

Actually I’ve found it has alot of sway that at distance makes it quite hard to hit the head consistently, even when ADS and crouching. The most stable SMG I found is one that both Nader and Bushwacker can have.

(umberInlet) #25

@satisfyingCove When you are talking anout sway, do you mean how the crosshair moves while you walk? If so, there is a setting to turn it off.

(Lumi) #26

No, that’s the view bob. That I already have turned off. It’s the effect you get after continuous shooting. But I figured out that if you just click really fast instead of holding down the button that sway goes away. Imo that shouldn’t happen, as in effect it’s like continuous shooting but I guess it comes with how the game is coded…

(avidCow) #27

Really, why not? He is slower than the other mercs to compensate. His self heal is very slow and he is limited to SMG weapons. You don’t like rambo medics? Play against one who consistently lands packs directly on Fraggers / Arties as they push through your position, all the while covering their back. See how you like that.

(Lumi) #28

Really, why not? He is slower than the other mercs to compensate. His self heal is very slow and he is limited to SMG weapons. You don’t like rambo medics? Play against one who consistently lands packs directly on Fraggers / Arties as they push through your position, all the while covering their back. See how you like that.
[/quote]

I would like that! My complaint is more on the teamwork aspect of things rather then as an opponent. I mean if he would have less HP, of course he would also get a speed buff, but my point is that I’ve had many sawbonez in my team that rarely give medpacks to others or even bother doing revives, as they’re on the offensive! I would like them to be more defensive as to support others…

But right now sawbonez can take almost any enemy, easy peasy so why bother staying in the back of the ranks to help out others?

(Szakalot) #29

what you are complaining is how people play, which is something you will never have ANY control over, and best just be ignored.

(avidCow) #30

Really, why not? He is slower than the other mercs to compensate. His self heal is very slow and he is limited to SMG weapons. You don’t like rambo medics? Play against one who consistently lands packs directly on Fraggers / Arties as they push through your position, all the while covering their back. See how you like that.
[/quote]

I would like that! My complaint is more on the teamwork aspect of things rather then as an opponent. I mean if he would have less HP, of course he would also get a speed buff, but my point is that I’ve had many sawbonez in my team that rarely give medpacks to others or even bother doing revives, as they’re on the offensive! I would like them to be more defensive as to support others…

But right now sawbonez can take almost any enemy, easy peasy so why bother staying in the back of the ranks to help out others?[/quote]

Yes, but I think your comment applies to every merc in their own way. I kept saying to myself tonight while playing “these people are just playing TDM”.

(watsyurdeal) #31

Really, why not? He is slower than the other mercs to compensate. His self heal is very slow and he is limited to SMG weapons. You don’t like rambo medics? Play against one who consistently lands packs directly on Fraggers / Arties as they push through your position, all the while covering their back. See how you like that.
[/quote]

I would like that! My complaint is more on the teamwork aspect of things rather then as an opponent. I mean if he would have less HP, of course he would also get a speed buff, but my point is that I’ve had many sawbonez in my team that rarely give medpacks to others or even bother doing revives, as they’re on the offensive! I would like them to be more defensive as to support others…

But right now sawbonez can take almost any enemy, easy peasy so why bother staying in the back of the ranks to help out others?[/quote]

Yes, but I think your comment applies to every merc in their own way. I kept saying to myself tonight while playing “these people are just playing TDM”.
[/quote]

Yea you really can’t force people to play as a team, unless it’s competitive matchmaking or something like in CS GO.

(Lumi) #32

[quote=“majesticClue;19461”]

Yea you really can’t force people to play as a team, unless it’s competitive matchmaking or something like in CS GO.[/quote]

This game has no TDM mode, hence people are supposed to play in a team as the game is onely objective based. Hence trying to control how people use their mercs makes sense. Hence splash damage’s recent buff to Nader’s hit points in order to have people rush more with it.

Makes sense that Sawbonez would get a HP reduction.

Just now I had someone complain about the scoreboard, as he/she was third but had most kills of all… I guess that player didn’t get that only kills don’t get you the highest score…

(avidCow) #33

Well, make him faster…

(t3hsquirr3l) #34

I only made it through half the thread, but wanted to say that so far I haven’t had any problems with either sawbones or aura.

I haven’t played sawbones, but I’ve gone against them and had them on my team plenty; the problem I’m noticing is that players seem to think that he’s perfect for rambo mode, when he’s really not any better than average.

As to the offensive vs defensive medic, I don’t really think of sawbones as straight up offensive. What I love having (good) sawbones on my team for is pushes. He isn’t (shouldn’t be) on point, but instant heath packs that give regen is perfect for pushes where even a few seconds of cover will give you some health back.

Aura hasn’t been too successful for me in pushing, due to long deploy time of station and how quickly it can blow due to the endless stream of grenades and airstrikes on the frontline. All she can do is quick rezzes, which sawbones can also do. Aura works well as a fallback defense, or holding a forward position once it’s taken.

I’m a relatively new player, so apologies if I come up with false or less-optimal ideas, but this be hows I sees it for now.

(watsyurdeal) #35

No you pretty much nailed it, just because Sawbonez isn’t the ideal class to kill people with, doesn’t mean he’s not an offensive Medic, same for Aura being defensive. The scenarios you describe are exactly what they’re made for, so they’re doing their job.

Curious about Phoneix and Sparks tho

(Szakalot) #36

[quote=“majesticClue;19461”]

Yea you really can’t force people to play as a team, unless it’s competitive matchmaking or something like in CS GO.[/quote]

This game has no TDM mode, hence people are supposed to play in a team as the game is onely objective based.[/quote]

People are not ‘supposed’ to do anything. This is a game, not a chore. The only thing you can rely on is people wanting to play in such a way that they have fun. The way to encourage teamplay is by making sure people have fun doing it.

Hence trying to control how people use their mercs makes sense. Hence splash damage’s recent buff to Nader’s hit points in order to have people rush more with it.

Makes sense that Sawbonez would get a HP reduction.

Just now I had someone complain about the scoreboard, as he/she was third but had most kills of all… I guess that player didn’t get that only kills don’t get you the highest score…

Nerfing Sawbonez HP will make nobody play him! Its that simple. Would you rather have ‘rambo’ medics, or no medics at all?

(Lumi) #37

Your premise is soo wrong. A game per definition has rules! That’s why cheating isn’t allowed! It’s not because a video game has harder to see rules that anyone should do what they want. A game has rules and bounderies that players can evolve with and if you or someone else considers some limitation to be a chore than that particular game isn’t your type of game and you should move on to something better suite to you.

That is why I don’t play sports game, most hack’n’slash nor MOBAs. Those have rules and game mechanics that are tedious to me, but they are necessary to maintain the coherence and feel of that particular game.

Now this is an objective focused game, just as CS that you mentioned before, hence rendering the game more forcefull on the role specificities isn’t a bad thing, it’s what defines the game. Otherwise it loses its identity and consistence over multiple games. Right now, the too big liberty (including no class limit) results in frustrating games at times. MAybe 25% of the games right now are really fun, and those are the ones where everyone knows their place and plays their role. Forcing rules would increase that percentage.

(Szakalot) #38

Forcing rules (nerfing HP on medics to push them even further into support roles) would make nobody play medics. Since new mercs are released, we already see less and less people picking medics to play with (esp. since Aura is hard to play with all the explosives in the game)

You can’t make people play the way YOU want. You can only encourage them.

(watsyurdeal) #39

That’s true, we can ony give people the tools they need and let them go from there

I think Aura and Sawbonez have everything they need to fulfill their roles, really curious to see how Sparks and Phoneix come into play. Phoneix actually seems kinda…crappy.

(avidCow) #40

The self revive does seem quite situational. And how often do competitive teams forget to gib? That said I haven’t had the opportunity to play as him yet.