So what do people think of Thunder now?

(cocoaPudding) #21

@Amerika Hipfire to ADS is one of the first things I learned on him. That does not stop ADS from basically making him as quick as rhino without the stopping power.

(Amerika) #22

You finish with ADS a lot of times. You don’t sit there all day with your ironsights up shooting. You treat it like the K121 where you start from the hip in many situations and switch to ADS to get the last 20% if you didn’t get the kill from the hip.

I’m simply of the opinion that the MK46 is now significantly better now to the point of being onpar with the K121. I’m not sure if he’s Fragger status yet because Fragger’s grenade is simply hard to beat. But for raw killing potential with his LMG I think he’s there now.

(cocoaPudding) #23

You finish with ADS a lot of times. You don’t sit there all day with your ironsights up shooting. You treat it like the K121 where you start from the hip in many situations and switch to ADS to get the last 20% if you didn’t get the kill from the hip.

I’m simply of the opinion that the MK46 is now significantly better now to the point of being onpar with the K121. I’m not sure if he’s Fragger status yet because Fragger’s grenade is simply hard to beat. But for raw killing potential with his LMG I think he’s there now.[/quote]

Oh, pardon. There seems to be a misunderstanding. I wasn’t intending to imply that the MK46 was a -bad- weapon. It isn’t. It’s fun and can be exceptionally effective. What I attempted to say was “as his primary and largely -only- way to kill people is it enough when compared with not only the other assaults but also the fire supports?” Fragger has frags, Nader nades, Stoker has fire. But, each of them also have extremely effective weapons. What with it being largely agreed upon that his ability is lolsy at the best of times, is it good enough?

(Vaasref) #24

Can someone tells me if Thunder makes Rhino less viable ?

Thunder with his MK46 seem to be much more flexible.

Also is Thunder nearer than Fragger or than Rhino gameplay wise ?
Since Rhino rely heavily on mobility skills and brain game I wonder as a Rhino main how well can I use Thunder.

(Amerika) #25

You finish with ADS a lot of times. You don’t sit there all day with your ironsights up shooting. You treat it like the K121 where you start from the hip in many situations and switch to ADS to get the last 20% if you didn’t get the kill from the hip.

I’m simply of the opinion that the MK46 is now significantly better now to the point of being onpar with the K121. I’m not sure if he’s Fragger status yet because Fragger’s grenade is simply hard to beat. But for raw killing potential with his LMG I think he’s there now.[/quote]

Oh, pardon. There seems to be a misunderstanding. I wasn’t intending to imply that the MK46 was a -bad- weapon. It isn’t. It’s fun and can be exceptionally effective. What I attempted to say was “as his primary and largely -only- way to kill people is it enough when compared with not only the other assaults but also the fire supports?” Fragger has frags, Nader nades, Stoker has fire. But, each of them also have extremely effective weapons. What with it being largely agreed upon that his ability is lolsy at the best of times, is it good enough?[/quote]

I think the conc needs to allow for cooking and perhaps permanently knockout deployables which would put it more on par with a frag grenade. I’m not sure it could ever quite match a frag grenade but getting it close will at least make it more of an interesting choice as opposed to a guaranteed no. Running a two big body + medic setup with fragger/thunder and cooked nades for both could be interesting.

(Vaasref) #26

I would like to see how good conc’ are without line of sight bugs and inconsistencies.

(SaulWolfden) #27

[quote=“Vaasref;154786”]Can someone tells me if Thunder makes Rhino less viable ?

Thunder with his MK46 seem to be much more flexible.

Also is Thunder nearer than Fragger or than Rhino gameplay wise ?
Since Rhino rely heavily on mobility skills and brain game I wonder as a Rhino main how well can I use Thunder.[/quote]

Technically he’s more viable than Rhino, but Rhino is also an incredibly niche merc. The problem with Thunder is just how inconsistent he is and how he seems to have more problems than the other assaults at getting any points. If he at least had 170 hp he’d be ok I’d think, but his concussion grenade needs a rework and the damage nerf on the mk46 needs to be reverted (they lowered the damage by 1 for some reason in release). He’s sort of like Fragger with similar weaponry and a grenade, but Fragger gets kills with his grenades, Thunder merely annoys people with his grenades (if they actually work).

(Vaasref) #28

As a Rhino main and trying Thunder right now, I see that the change in the hip fire accuracy when jumping as a big nerf to slower mercs who need to longjump+rebound to not being too easy targets.

That affect them even more since their heavier weapons tend to spread quickly.

(JJMAJR) #29

I see Thunder as more of a support class than an Assault. I think that he needs to be geared more towards assassination instead of going rambo and murdering everything in sight.

Because clearly, he isn’t performing that way, and his abilities and weapons don’t support a desperate, kill-everything-you-can strategy. The Stark is geared towards long range. The Timik was supposed to be his short range weapon but was nerfed to uselessness before Thunder’s release. Finally the MG to me has very low recoil compared to Fragger’s and basically acts like an SMG with better clip ammo than the Hochfir, and more DPS than the Crotzni.

Not that the MG’s strengths compared to SMGs save it. It has less DPS than the Stark.

Thunder has worse weapons than Fragger though. Fragger’s burst rifle has more DPS, his MG has more DPS, and his automatic rifle is a no-recoil frenzy if you start being able to predict where your shots would land, while the Timik is a piece of shit with enormous recoil for slightly higher DPS that isn’t even competitive compared to a burst rifle or the Dreiss.

Well, that’s my thoughts on Thunder.

(gloomyRequirement) #30

[quote=“JJMAJR;155081”]I see Thunder as more of a support class than an Assault. I think that he needs to be geared more towards assassination instead of going rambo and murdering everything in sight.

Because clearly, he isn’t performing that way, and his abilities and weapons don’t support a desperate, kill-everything-you-can strategy. The Stark is geared towards long range. The Timik was supposed to be his short range weapon but was nerfed to uselessness before Thunder’s release. Finally the MG to me has very low recoil compared to Fragger’s and basically acts like an SMG with better clip ammo than the Hochfir, and more DPS than the Crotzni.

Not that the MG’s strengths compared to SMGs save it. It has less DPS than the Stark.

Thunder has worse weapons than Fragger though. Fragger’s burst rifle has more DPS, his MG has more DPS, and his automatic rifle is a no-recoil frenzy if you start being able to predict where your shots would land, while the Timik is a piece of shit with enormous recoil for slightly higher DPS that isn’t even competitive compared to a burst rifle or the Dreiss.

Well, that’s my thoughts on Thunder.[/quote]

I personally don’t really see the Timik being that bad, it’s just not a good weapon for Thunder. The Stark AR is just incredibly powerful, as is the Dreiss(they’re a bit comparable in that respect - they reward proper aiming MASSIVELY). I really don’t understand why the Stark is part of thunder’s loadout to begin with…(it’s easily his best card simply for the Stark well - being the stark)

I do agree that the MG acts like an SMG with more ammo - which obviously shouldn’t be and doesn’t fit thunder. Thunder should, design wise, be good at mid range and mid range only(much like Fragger is also). Shotguns should have an advantage over him - as should snipers, but in other scenarios you’d think he should stand a good chance as the slow speed Rambo he’s suppose to be. But he isn’t currently, he’s basically an inferior mixture between fragger and rhino.

(Amerika) #31

Fragger is quite good at long range combat in both his weapon options and being able to toss his grenade a long ways. I have no clue how you came up with Fragger being only good at the mid-range. No maps are big enough to make Snipers more viable due to extended range.

(gloomyRequirement) #32

Some of the things you say really make me assume you’re just an awful player to be honest. I’m not saying Fragger cannot kill at long range but given equal skill a vassili easily makes mincemeat of a fragger at long range - and yes, long range in terms of DB maps.

I have NEVER fought an enemy team, and I’ve faced some really skilled ones may I add, that could outfire me with something like Fragger or Skyhammer at Chapel with me playing Vassili. One well placed bullet and it’s over for them, whereas they have to constantly hit my very narrow hitbox

(MarsRover) #33

If you tried Thunder right after release and never touched him again a I recommend another try. Sure, he is definitely not at Fragger level. But when you have clocked hundreds of hours and want some variety in pubs or other non-serious play then he will do.

He got some slight buffs here and there, but one is huge for me - shortened reload time on Mk46. This made him fell more mobile and much less cumbersome.

That being said his nade is still crap and most of the time you will be wishing you had a frag. Self blinding still seems inconsistent/buggy to me but I need a few more hours to make sure it’s not my fault.

(Vaasref) #34

Some of the things you say really make me assume you’re just an awful player to be honest. I’m not saying Fragger cannot kill at long range but given equal skill a vassili easily makes mincemeat of a fragger at long range - and yes, long range in terms of DB maps.

I have NEVER fought an enemy team, and I’ve faced some really skilled ones may I add, that could outfire me with something like Fragger or Skyhammer at Chapel with me playing Vassili. One well placed bullet and it’s over for them, whereas they have to constantly hit my very narrow hitbox[/quote]

You are so funny.

Saying to @Amerika that he is an awful player. You gained a “lol”.

Same thought about the conc here @MarsRover, I also do feel like it’s easier to blind myself than the enemy. Like Phoenix says “I do it myself”.

Maybe Thunder don’t know how to count, that can be why he can’t cook his concs’ or close his eyes at the right time after tossing a grenade ahead.

(gloomyRequirement) #35

Some of the things you say really make me assume you’re just an awful player to be honest. I’m not saying Fragger cannot kill at long range but given equal skill a vassili easily makes mincemeat of a fragger at long range - and yes, long range in terms of DB maps.

I have NEVER fought an enemy team, and I’ve faced some really skilled ones may I add, that could outfire me with something like Fragger or Skyhammer at Chapel with me playing Vassili. One well placed bullet and it’s over for them, whereas they have to constantly hit my very narrow hitbox[/quote]

You are so funny.

Saying to @Amerika that is an awful player. You gained a “lol”.

Same thought about the conc here @MarsRover, I also do feel like it’s easier to blind myself than the enemy. Like Phoenix says “I do it myself”.

Maybe Thunder don’t know how to count, that can be why he can’t cook his concs’ or close his eyes at the right time after tossing a grenade ahead.[/quote]

I never said he’s a bad player. You get a lol for not being able to read

(Amerika) #36

Some of the things you say really make me assume you’re just an awful player to be honest. I’m not saying Fragger cannot kill at long range but given equal skill a vassili easily makes mincemeat of a fragger at long range - and yes, long range in terms of DB maps.

I have NEVER fought an enemy team, and I’ve faced some really skilled ones may I add, that could outfire me with something like Fragger or Skyhammer at Chapel with me playing Vassili. One well placed bullet and it’s over for them, whereas they have to constantly hit my very narrow hitbox[/quote]

Well, I am probably nearing 100 hours of DB footage on YT as I am not afraid to put my skill, my stats (also publicly available) and knowledge on display with unedited footage against any players and using all weapons and mercs. So you could check that out to assess my skill and figure out whether or not I am just some awful DB player who is being an armchair DB theorizer or if there is merit to what I am saying.

Can we see a display of your skill that turns every single Fragger that looks at you into “mincement”?

(RedBeard) #37

Bullet Sponge = thunder!

(FilterDecay) #38

thunder needs more xp for concussions. like 50xp for a concussion and 100xp for a concussion assist.

Look at how aurora prints xp and then look at thunders xp? 10 per? You would need to concuss 5 people with 1 nade to equal a ammo pack. Thats amazing. Just droping a ammo pack on the ground gives you the same xp and concussing someone.

(Terminal_6) #39

Thunder doesn’t feel terrible, but it feels difficult to get a lot of XP with him unless you’re playing at the top of your game.
So I agree with this:

Thunder’s at his best (which I’m defining as a combination of effectiveness and merc-uniqueness) in a defensive situation where you can hold the MK46 at players who have to approach you over range. But this doesn’t really seem right because it doesn’t make good use of his conc grenades. When I throw a conc into a room and enter, it’s pretty much a toss-up whether or not the occupants are completely blinded and combat ineffective. If they’re only partially blinded, they can still see the Michelin Man coming.

Regarding the MK46, I won’t use it without Drilled, so that really limits loadout choice. It handles decently, especially with headshots. Not quite a K-121, but decent.

(FilterDecay) #40

i dont really like thunders mg as you have to rush into your grenades to try and get kills and that thing is HORRIBLE at close range (too much lag on mvmt to make it good). So much so I have stopped using it and switched to the ak47 or whatever. Atleast now i get my kills.