So The Snipers Received A Nerf...

(PixelTwitch) #1

In the latest patch (21/04/2015) all sniper rifles received a nerf in the form of added scope sway that is applied while moving when scoped in. It appears that this change was left out of the patch notes so I don’t know if there was any other changes at this point in time.

Now, I do believe that the Sniper does need some form of nerf, however I feel the current addition is both ineffective and negativity effects the kinaesthetics of sniping. Honestly, I am pretty certain that this is not due to values related to new scope sway but the mechanic as a whole. First off, it feels odd to use due to the mechanic being really poorly implemented and the way yet more randomness is added. The reason it is fairly ineffective as a nerf is simple, it only actually nerfs more methodical snipers and not the quick/flick/jumping snipers that Splash Damage claim to be targeting.

This is due to the steps a player follows in order to snipe in Dirty Bomb.
You see your enemy, move crosshair towards enemy, scope, see final scope location, flick and shoot… Even when it comes down to the jumping snipers, you only need to know the location of your scope in relation to the person you plan to shoot. The act of flicking and shooting lasts less than 100ms and in that time, unless at the most extreme ranges, the sway would not effect the outcome of a shot in the vast majority of cases. What little difference it does make, does not seem worth the negatives added to more basic sniping that will effect everyone that uses the weapon. Also, it makes the weapon feel harder to use, less fun to use and simply random in many circumstances.

http://s15.postimg.org/hdeefs0aj/2015_04_24_00001.jpg

The game above was me playing around at trying to jump shot and flick shot. Honestly, I don’t know if I found it any harder overall but I am certain I found it much less fun and had a greater feeling of randomness even if the results were pretty much identical to what they would have been prior to the new system.

If jumping snipers are such an issue…
Reduce the jump height of players that jump while looking down the scope by around 30%. You also have the option (that I am personally hoping for generally) to slow the time it takes you to enter the full scoped state. I think this time could be doubled. It would reduce these instant quick scopes, nerf people that jump and then scope when they see someone and overall pull the weapon more in line with the rest.

Personally I am disappointed to see this be the first port of call for numerous reasons. I would hope to see it removed completely and replaced by nerfs that target its problem areas more directly. What does everyone else think?

(ToonBE) #2

I already said in an other post that vasili needed a nerf. He is able to insta gib, so sniping cannot be too easy. So I am liking that they try to nerf vasili. It is a support class and not a heavy class.

I never play vasili, so I cannot compare. Movement is important though. But now I don’t feel see this nerf as bad. Jumping less high? Nah… Doesn’t effect the sniping… Flick shotting/ jump shots are demanding so I only see a higher skill needed to use vasili? No more running around scoped etc… I haven’t tested it however…

(coruscate) #3

[quote=“ToonBE;15999”]I already said in an other post that vasili needed a nerf. He is able to insta gib, so sniping cannot be too easy. So I am liking that they try to nerf vasili. It is a support class and not a heavy class.

I never play vasili, so I cannot compare. Movement is important though. But now I don’t feel see this nerf as bad. Jumping less high? Nah… Doesn’t effect the sniping… Flick shotting/ jump shots are demanding so I only see a higher skill needed to use vasili? No more running around scoped etc… I haven’t tested it however…[/quote]

I already stated that this is kind of dumb, fragger and vas are not giving anything towards the team except for their fighting power, why nerfing it even more? He should be able to take out the enemys fairly quickly IF He hits the right spot. Headshot = Dead and Gibbed. If u think it is too easy to do thats one point but making him mostly USELESS that is just wrong.

(DadoPeja) #4

Making him useless how? - he can’t gib anymore or what?

(Amerika) #5

[quote=“Coruscate;16031”][quote=“ToonBE;15999”]I already said in an other post that vasili needed a nerf. He is able to insta gib, so sniping cannot be too easy. So I am liking that they try to nerf vasili. It is a support class and not a heavy class.

I never play vasili, so I cannot compare. Movement is important though. But now I don’t feel see this nerf as bad. Jumping less high? Nah… Doesn’t effect the sniping… Flick shotting/ jump shots are demanding so I only see a higher skill needed to use vasili? No more running around scoped etc… I haven’t tested it however…[/quote]

I already stated that this is kind of dumb, fragger and vas are not giving anything towards the team except for their fighting power, why nerfing it even more? He should be able to take out the enemys fairly quickly IF He hits the right spot. Headshot = Dead and Gibbed. If u think it is too easy to do thats one point but making him mostly USELESS that is just wrong.[/quote]

I’m not a fan of the nerfs but let me point out that Vasilli gives their team the absolute best support ability in the game next to revives in the heartbeat sensor. Knowing where people are at is extremely powerful. So yeah, Vasilli contributes quite significantly even if he doesn’t kill as many people.

(capriciousParsely) #6

[quote=“Coruscate;16031”][quote=“ToonBE;15999”]I already said in an other post that vasili needed a nerf. He is able to insta gib, so sniping cannot be too easy. So I am liking that they try to nerf vasili. It is a support class and not a heavy class.

I never play vasili, so I cannot compare. Movement is important though. But now I don’t feel see this nerf as bad. Jumping less high? Nah… Doesn’t effect the sniping… Flick shotting/ jump shots are demanding so I only see a higher skill needed to use vasili? No more running around scoped etc… I haven’t tested it however…[/quote]

I already stated that this is kind of dumb, fragger and vas are not giving anything towards the team except for their fighting power, why nerfing it even more? He should be able to take out the enemys fairly quickly IF He hits the right spot. Headshot = Dead and Gibbed. If u think it is too easy to do thats one point but making him mostly USELESS that is just wrong.[/quote]

Eh, heartbeat sensor is INCREDIBLY useful for any class. Line up shots, mines, grenades etc. before the enemy even can respond. How is that not useful?

(Reddeadcap) #7

I really think scope sway is fine and the ability to shoot while jumping should be removed, while in the meantime aim punch is removed entirely, or decreased by 50% and the flinch augmentation lowers it to 0, allowing sniper to fire when they’re fired at.

(Eox) #8

Wouldn’t removing aimpunch make snipers even more powerful than they used to be ? We definitely don’t want to see the game full of snipers, and allowing snipers to instagib someone while under fire from afar does not seem to be a good idea at all. A guy with just a little point and click skills would just steamroll the game without that penality, I positive.

Mechanics randomly affecting the scope does not seem to be a good idea either. Replace it with a basic precision decrease or something, just to make it not feel that random. Other than that, I feel like Vassili is in a rather good spot. Maybe @PixelTwitch have a very good score because he is just very good at sniping (suddenly, you discover that you are very good at something… Heh, it can happen).

If sniping is really a problem, I’d suggest to make snipers only gibbing while scoped, adding a reverse fallof system or just decreasing damage while making headshot multiplier bigger (will force players to aim for the head in order to be efficient, so sniping will need you to have great aiming skills).

(chickenNwaffles) #9

Most wouldn’t care at all if they completely removed the ability to body shot, but the only way snipers can instagib is if they get a headshot (that’s why Vassili is a high skilled class, as it’s very difficult to consistently headshot people who are inducing aimpunch while crouch spamming). Removing the “skill” from sniping not only makes Vassili less fun to play and watch, but overall reduces his effectiveness.

(DadoPeja) #10

I tryed sniper today for 1st time and i got pretty good kills, sway is little akward but not that bad. This nerf was needed and should stay - maybe reduce sway a little bit but not remove it !

(watsyurdeal) #11

Just reduce it for the rifle Vasilli comes with and keep it as is on the Felix, and revert the damage nerf.

(DadoPeja) #12

Here, this is my ~10th game with sniper today and i was pretty good ! So i dont see why so much crying about this nerf?


And i played sniper only 1 day !

(chickenNwaffles) #13

[quote=“DadoPeja;16377”]Here, this is my ~10th game with sniper today and i was pretty good ! So i dont see why so much crying about this nerf?


And i played sniper only 1 day ! [/quote]

Remember! Pubs are waaaay different than organized 5v5s. Even I can still top score as Vassili after the nerf.

5v5s are a whole different game when compared to pubs!

(bumbertyr) #14

[quote=“chickenNwaffles;16395”][quote=“DadoPeja;16377”]Here, this is my ~10th game with sniper today and i was pretty good ! So i dont see why so much crying about this nerf?


And i played sniper only 1 day ! [/quote]

Remember! Pubs are waaaay different than organized 5v5s. Even I can still top score as Vassili after the nerf.

5v5s are a whole different game when compared to pubs![/quote]

Great 5v5’s cool, lets not have this game become another LoL where all that matters is the competitive aspect. Vaselli was an issue in the mode where the majority of the players will be.

(chickenNwaffles) #15

[quote=“bumbertyr;16398”][quote=“chickenNwaffles;16395”][quote=“DadoPeja;16377”]Here, this is my ~10th game with sniper today and i was pretty good ! So i dont see why so much crying about this nerf?


And i played sniper only 1 day ! [/quote]

Remember! Pubs are waaaay different than organized 5v5s. Even I can still top score as Vassili after the nerf.

5v5s are a whole different game when compared to pubs![/quote]

Great 5v5’s cool, lets not have this game become another LoL where all that matters is the competitive aspect. Vaselli was an issue in the mode where the majority of the players will be.

[/quote]

Of course! However, you still have to balance the game around the competitive scene AND the pub scene. Not just one. This “change” (nerf) to Vassili only catered to the pub scene, where the impact of sniping is much higher. However, this change severely hindered his validity in the competitive scene.

You can’t just balance something around one scene. Also, I’m not quite sure what you mean about LoL. Unlike Dirty Bomb, even casual “pubs” are still played in the competitive 5v5 gamemode, so Riot balancing champions because they are OP in the highest level of play is not a bad thing at all.

The way I look at it, is that the comp scene of games usually takes a games classes or whatever they may be and uses them at their full potential (whether that be mechanically or strategically), so it is usually best to listen to your competitive player feedback over your pub player feedback.

And, at the highest level of play in Dirty Bomb, Vassili is a very situational, weak, and risky pick that not all teams even consider. Very few players are willing to put in the effort to make Vassili a worthwhile choice, so this nerf to him was almost the nail in the coffin for most players (like myself).

I love seeing skill ceilings for things in games being raised, as it can lead to super interesting and beneficial play, but with the added in scope sway, the ceiling was simply lowered, as there is a ton more RNG in the scope when you try to move/jump and shoot.

The only thing that made Vassili good, ever, was skill. He is a hard to use merc that needs buffs, not nerfs. No amount of nerf will ever make a sniper balanced in pubs, only skill and good play will, that’s why he is OP in pubs; not everybody in pubs is a competitive/great player! You are right though, most people do play pubs, but it’s the competitive scene that keeps the games watched, played, and exciting (Ex. cs:go, league, any game really…).

(coruscate) #16

[quote=“bumbertyr;16398”][quote=“chickenNwaffles;16395”][quote=“DadoPeja;16377”]Here, this is my ~10th game with sniper today and i was pretty good ! So i dont see why so much crying about this nerf?


And i played sniper only 1 day ! [/quote]

Remember! Pubs are waaaay different than organized 5v5s. Even I can still top score as Vassili after the nerf.

5v5s are a whole different game when compared to pubs![/quote]

Great 5v5’s cool, lets not have this game become another LoL where all that matters is the competitive aspect. Vaselli was an issue in the mode where the majority of the players will be.

[/quote]

So basically, don’t let this game become what the devs stated it will become? The game is all about competitiveness.

(Kroad) #17

nah, sniping in pubs is still very easy, it only affected comp

(god1) #18

Good players will make ANYTHING look like an issue in pubs. You can go run around with nothing but a cricket bat and still be pulling top scores.

(Chirs) #19

[quote=“god1;16452”][quote=“bumbertyr;16398”]
Good players will make ANYTHING look like an issue in pubs. You can go run around with nothing but a cricket bat and still be pulling top scores.[/quote]

I know what you mean, the amount of med pack headshots is getting out of hand.