So The Snipers Received A Nerf...

(Ashog) #41

Well, they were saying it wasn’t the right time. It still hasn’t come tho, it seems.

(chickenNwaffles) #42

I think people are missing the biggest point about this nerf to Vassili. It simply doesn’t address any of the issues that apparently plague sniping in pubs. The added scope sway when moving punishes player, such as myself, who are able to reliably and skillfully kill people while jumping and roaming around the map quickly. Lower-skilled players in pubs are used to sitting still and sniping in most games, so this change has 0 impact on them, but it has a huge impact on higher skilled players who could before, use their movement to help further define their impact when sniping. http://www.twitch.tv/chickennwaffles723/c/6606293 Takes this game for example. You will see me: jump sniping, bunny-jump sniping, moving back and forth while sniping, and aggressively sniping ALL THE TIME. Not once do I stand still to shoot someone. Why? Because, that makes you an easier target AND it’s a crappy thing to do. You have to be really fluent when you snipe, so it’s bad practice to stand still to make a hard shot. Mobile sniping has it’s advantages: you can suprise enemies with new and different angles that they sometimes wouldn’t expect. Mobile sniping is also a very hard thing to do, it’s a hell of a lot easier to sit behind your team and try to snipe, but you make yourself easy to avoid and counter, while sniping with your front line makes you more of an actively changing threat. I believe that most people here just don’t appreciate the skill input that sniping takes, because most people who whine about it don’t play sniper the way that I do. Lowering the skill ceiling, by punishing movement was what killed all the fun in Vassili for me. All the innovative things I tried and practiced are now determined by RNG and not skill. I believe that the sniper should have no sway at all, but before you all go ballistic on me, imagine if your crosshair swayed while moving when you were hip-firing the Fragger’s lmg, just like it does now with Vassili’s scoped weapons. It would suck right? Your aim and movement would be separated, and punished, because of all the RNG, and you would have to resort to standing still.

You guys need to have more of an open mind when it comes to balance, because the snipers in this game are the least of our worries…

(Hundopercent) #43

Not sure why people are trying to make it sound like sniping is difficult in this game. The maps are all corridors. It’s very easy. I haven’t mained sniper in forever and can still rage on Vassili…

(INF3RN0) #44

Raging public or MM? Best way to prove the point that it’s too easy is to que up in the dirty cup pugs and confirm.

(ailmanki) #45

What I don’t get, how crouch spam is the counter to a good sniper. If that’s really the idea - its kinda hilarious. Then SD could also add back tjing… its less erratic then crouch spam.
Besides I bet even with crouch spamming - a good sniper, once perfomance is sorted out, will pwn those also.
Seeing how good people play ql with railgun - hitting single pixels… well - even there you need more then one shot when the enemy is healthy.

edit:
Shoutcaster: “Oh wow, did you just see how he evaded that sniper with crouch spam - amazing player …” rofl

(fubar) #46

[QUOTE=ailmanki;526707]What I don’t get, how crouch spam is the counter to a good sniper. If that’s really the idea - its kinda hilarious. Then SD could also add back tjing… its less erratic then crouch spam.
Besides I bet even with crouch spamming - a good sniper, once perfomance is sorted out, will pwn those also.
Seeing how good people play ql with railgun - hitting single pixels… well - even there you need more then one shot when the enemy is healthy.

edit:
Shoutcaster: “Oh wow, did you just see how he evaded that sniper with crouch spam - amazing player …” rofl[/QUOTE]

Crouch is unpredictable is all. I’ve sniped vs those… particular people linkz and chicken like to overtly complain about, as long as you expect the crouch it’s easy to deal with, even while moving and being hit. Scope sway is nothing in this game. It’s there, surely, but it’s minimal and very easily controlled. I’m by no means a good sniper either, mediocre at best, but if the greats from Q3/QL, ET/RtCW and CS were to move over they’d find it just as ridiculously easy to hit.
Sniper is easy. Period. He’s not very viable for a “permanent” position but that’s simply due to the map design and gamedesign. He’ll shine in extraction mode, never in stopwatch. He’ll always remain a situational pick, nothing wrong with that either.

(titan) #47

plsss revert this change it hasn’t made sniping massively harder but it just feels horrible now… scope bobbing all over the place.
This game’s too fast paced for stationary snipers where if you stand still for more than a second someone is gonna instakill you with a laser accurate smg

(LiNkzr) #48

[QUOTE=fubar;526711]Crouch is unpredictable is all. I’ve sniped vs those… particular people linkz and chicken like to overtly complain about, as long as you expect the crouch it’s easy to deal with, even while moving and being hit. Scope sway is nothing in this game. It’s there, surely, but it’s minimal and very easily controlled. I’m by no means a good sniper either, mediocre at best, but if the greats from Q3/QL, ET/RtCW and CS were to move over they’d find it just as ridiculously easy to hit.
Sniper is easy. Period. He’s not very viable for a “permanent” position but that’s simply due to the map design and gamedesign. He’ll shine in extraction mode, never in stopwatch. He’ll always remain a situational pick, nothing wrong with that either.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for giving feedback based on competitive games instead of 8v8 pubs. Not that I really care anymore.

“but if the greats from Q3/QL, ET/RtCW and CS were to move over they’d find it just as ridiculously easy to hit. " good comment. I agree, just nerf vassili because the best players from these games were to move they find it really easy. Kappa :SDASD:ASDNI Q”=5 OQ"IN% IO"Q OPNAIOWn AWTO NAWIOTN AWa

I don’t even. Crouch-spamming itself isn’t a problem, I think out of 3/10 times I challenge a sniper from medium-long range I crouch spam and hit so he gets aimpunched it results in headshot. but in the end im not playing against the greats of previously mentioned games so this is irrelevant? coz games should be balanced because how good people are in other games LOL

The way you talk about sniping is that you don’t even play it, change is noticable compared to before and it’s randomly swaying, no where near easily “controllable” You sure we are playing the same game? not like ET? or CS? like you previously talked about

(fubar) #49

[QUOTE=LiNkzr;526721]Sorry for giving feedback based on competitive games instead of 8v8 pubs. Not that I really care anymore.

“but if the greats from Q3/QL, ET/RtCW and CS were to move over they’d find it just as ridiculously easy to hit. " good comment. I agree, just nerf vassili because the best players from these games were to move they find it really easy. Kappa :SDASD:ASDNI Q”=5 OQ"IN% IO"Q OPNAIOWn AWTO NAWIOTN AWa

I don’t even. Crouch-spamming itself isn’t a problem, I think out of 3/10 times I challenge a sniper from medium-long range I crouch spam and hit so he gets aimpunched it results in headshot. but in the end im not playing against the greats of previously mentioned games so this is irrelevant? coz games should be balanced because how good people are in other games LOL

The way you talk about sniping is that you don’t even play it, change is noticable compared to before and it’s randomly swaying, no where near easily “controllable” You sure we are playing the same game? not like ET? or CS? like you previously talked about[/QUOTE]

“I can never hit you guys when I try sniper against you”

ring a bell? Yeah.

(PixelTwitch) #50

Sorry to break up this fight guys but I just wanna push out a very important point here…

I DON’T CARE IF SNIPING IS CURRENTLY TOO EASY OR TOO HARD… THIS STUFF CAN BE ADJUSTED AT ANY TIME AND I AM SURE THAT THE GUYS AT SPLASH DAMAGE WANT TO KEEP A SNIPER ROLE VIABLE FOR COMPETITIVE. HONESTLY, RIGHT NOW MY OWN EFFECTIVENESS HAS BEEN NEGATIVELY EFFECTED AND IT NOW FEELS HORRIBLE TO SNIPE IN MY OPINION. HOWEVER, I DO FEEL SOME SORT OF NERF TO JUMP SPAMMING IS REQUIRED, JUST NOT THE ONE WE GOT BECAUSE ITS BASED ON RNG LIKE HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED.

NOW…

THE MAIN REASON FOR THIS THREAD AND THE BIGGEST CONCERN RIGHT NOW IN MY EYES IS HOW THE SNIPER FEELS TO USE. TO BE BLUNT IT FEELS HORRIBLE COMPARED TO PREVIOUSLY. LET’S ALL TRY AND FORGET THE ARGUMENT ABOUT ITS VIABILITY RIGHT NOW AND GET IT BACK TO A PLACE WHERE THE MECHANICS FEEL NICE AND MOVE FORWARD FROM THERE. REGARDLESS IF THE SNIPER IS OVER POWERED OR UNDER POWERED, IT BEING FUN TO USE IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

Thank You…

(titan) #51

Agreed pixel if he needs a nerf please find another way… Thanks

edit: i tried typing that all in caps but it changed it to lower case wtf!

(chickenNwaffles) #52

Jump sniping really isn’t a problem, maybe jump spamming, but it all really boils down to how well you can hit a target that is moving vertically (hit: it’s really easy, that’s why jumping is often times a killer (for yourself) while in combat). If people REALLY see jump spamming while sniping a problem then just make it so there is a cool down on jumping. My opinion stays firm that pre patch Vassili was perfectly balanced.

(Glottis-3D) #53

i totally agreed with the point, that mercs should be fun to play and should feel great.
and then you can nerf them with numbers, that do not spoil the mechanincs.

i tried Vasiliy just because i have founder card of his. and he feels mediocre. sway makes me to stop-and-shoot rather than move-quickscope-and shoot (this i would like to try).
this is an opinion of a non-sniper never played that class in any game.

(Smooth) #54

I fully agree with this sentiment as well.

We tested this change internally and our typical Snipers felt it was okay but we didn’t play with it for long enough or put it into the hands of enough people. It also unfortunately got missed when we were creating the change log for the update.

This is still a Closed Beta Test but we’ll work harder at making sure changes like this go through more testing and feedback before getting to you guys, and also ensuring they all get into the change logs.

(ailmanki) #55

Just do these changes and test em, that is what closed beta is for; but define them as such! Ey new feature xy might be loved or hated please let us know.
Problem is many changes where no tests but seemed more like final… even though many “raged” nothing got changed. At least that is my perception.

(LiNkzr) #56

Maybe I swayed away from the original point (pun intended) but I hope we can come up with better solution than current one.

(poiuasd) #57

[QUOTE=Smooth;526766]
This is still a Closed Beta Test but we’ll work harder at making sure changes like this go through more testing and feedback before getting to you guys[/QUOTE]
So the sway nerf is going to be reverted in the next update? It didn’t receive enough internal testing after all. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

(chickenNwaffles) #58

A boy can dream…

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

(LiNkzr) #59

[QUOTE=Smooth;526766]I fully agree with this sentiment as well.

We tested this change internally and our typical Snipers felt it was okay but we didn’t play with it for long enough or put it into the hands of enough people. It also unfortunately got missed when we were creating the change log for the update.

This is still a Closed Beta Test but we’ll work harder at making sure changes like this go through more testing and feedback before getting to you guys, and also ensuring they all get into the change logs.[/QUOTE]

it felt like you could sneak in ninja-nerf and think that no one would notice, I felt quite bad. I hope you can figure out something that makes jump sniping either harder to do or not having it as “unlimited” resource.

(Kroad) #60

implying jump sniping is a problem