so are burst rifles getting nerfed anytime soon?

(JJMAJR) #41

I played against good Stark players. They pretty much had a sniper rifle. Pop off a few rounds and finish with pistol for most characters. Fragger can be downed rather quickly with a burst of headshots a la Stark, then a headshot with the S&W.
The BR has something similar.

I’d like to see their RoF toned down a bit so that the body DPS isn’t so high. If the BR-16 had shot 7.8 rounds a second, or 2.6 bursts a second, it would be a lot more balanced, having DPS closer to the Crotzni. And, if the Stark fired 7 rounds a second, or 2.3333 bursts a second…

(Amerika) #42

@neverplayserious You never did give an outline or some bullet points on why you think the way you do when asked about it in Twitch chat yesterday. You have also not done that in this thread.

I’d love to hear some constructive feedback on your position as opposed to passive-aggressively marking posts with disagree without explanation. Especially in your own thread. You should have a pretty good idea as to what is wrong considering how upset you are…right?

(Szakalot) #43

id love someone to address my AMMO capacity nerf

:disappointed:

(Equanimity) #44

The only real problem I feel is that the br-16 doesn’t have a lot of bloom. Generally speaking I feel like the stark is pretty well balanced.

(watsyurdeal) #45

[quote=“Szakalot;182389”]id love someone to address my AMMO capacity nerf

:disappointed: [/quote]

Kinda irrelevant since most of the people who use it are Fire Support, the only ones it’d affect are Thunder and Skyhammer. :\

(Szakalot) #46

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;182406”][quote=“Szakalot;182389”]id love someone to address my AMMO capacity nerf

:disappointed: [/quote]

Kinda irrelevant since most of the people who use it are Fire Support, the only ones it’d affect are Thunder and Skyhammer. :[/quote]

i mean AMMO CAPACITY in mag, not ammo capacity total. Less bullets in the gun - have to reload sooner. the more you have to reload the less you are shooting. I found burst rifles to actually be quite vulnerable on the reload as you have to do it often, they pretty much require drilled to be used effectively.

Br16 is at 27 bullets atm? dropping it down to 21 would be a bigger nerf than you might think, thats only 7 bursts before you have to reload, its almost impossible to take more than 2 people down with it, finally distinguishing it from the high-mag LMGs and middle of the road M4/timik

(watsyurdeal) #47

That may work, but I’d argue how many shots does it take to kill most people and how many bursts?

Cause think about it, the gun may be useless if you could use an easier gun like the M4, and kill more people with it per clip than the harder to use burst rifles.

Unless of course this is already the case, I’ll shut up then :\

Quick math

BR 16: 17
M4: 14

3514 = 490/980
1727 = 459/918

So…just barely, but the other thing is the Burst Rifles deal more damage upfront than the M4…so it’s somewhat balanced then??? :\

Freaking mondays

(Szakalot) #48

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;182420”]That may work, but I’d argue how many shots does it take to kill most people and how many bursts?

Cause think about it, the gun may be useless if you could use an easier gun like the M4, and kill more people with it per clip than the harder to use burst rifles.

Unless of course this is already the case, I’ll shut up then :[/quote]

well, burst rifles deal more damage per shot. And I think its perfectly fine if you have an easier to use, more reliable M4 and a bit of a trick gun that is extremely powerful but also makes the person vulnerable more often (due to being forced to reload more regularly).

In this light a burst-rifle user might be great at duels and long range support, but suffer in comparison to M4 when multiple enemies are pushing their position.

I like this idea (surprise) specifically because it doesn’t try to balance the guns by playing with their direct power output, either by nerfing/buffing DPS,RoF,damage, but rather by the meta-game of ‘whatcha gonna do when 3 people rush you’

(watsyurdeal) #49

[quote=“Szakalot;182425”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;182420”]That may work, but I’d argue how many shots does it take to kill most people and how many bursts?

Cause think about it, the gun may be useless if you could use an easier gun like the M4, and kill more people with it per clip than the harder to use burst rifles.

Unless of course this is already the case, I’ll shut up then :[/quote]

well, burst rifles deal more damage per shot. And I think its perfectly fine if you have an easier to use, more reliable M4 and a bit of a trick gun that is extremely powerful but also makes the person vulnerable more often (due to being forced to reload more regularly).

In this light a burst-rifle user might be great at duels and long range support, but suffer in comparison to M4 when multiple enemies are pushing their position.

I like this idea (surprise) specifically because it doesn’t try to balance the guns by playing with their direct power output, either by nerfing/buffing DPS,RoF,damage, but rather by the meta-game of ‘whatcha gonna do when 3 people rush you’[/quote]

I suppose, but I still think the BR 16 should be changed, I kinda like the idea of the burst delay being half or 33% less than the Stark, but having less damage.

Idk man it just bugs the ever living crap out of me how little difference there is between the Stark and BR, and Timik and M4. >_<

(Szakalot) #50

sure, but thats another discussion, imo. Lets first get the burst rifles in a distinctive spot away from automatics, and than figure out the differences between the variants.

Alternatively, you could nerf the DPS on BR16 just a bit, but only touch mag capacity on stark, making it the best rifle in the game, but with specific drawbacks. I prefer the first approach.

(watsyurdeal) #51

I think a damage nerf on the Stark, and a clip size nerf will fix most of the problems.

Then the BR could be tweaked to be a faster firing, less damaging brother.

(sonsofaugust5) #52

Fix the Timik and make it more like an AK? (deals more damage than m4a1). For now I’ll just use burst rifles. They are way better than everything else.

(watsyurdeal) #53

Best way to do that is to give the Timik 17 damage, and 133 ms for the rate of fire.

DPS would be 125 for the M4, and 127.8 for the Timik, the K 121 is about 136 for reference.

So this would be like a Pseudo K 121 for Fragger, Skyhammer, and Stoker.

So overall, the changes for the Timik would be

  • Damage buffed to 17
  • RoF nerfed to 133
  • Clip Size nerfed to 30
(B_Montiel) #54

Good ideas guys.

This is an interesting point. I’d probably be one of the only maniac still using them afterwards though :D. That’s a bit strong, but that might do the trick.

I still don’t know understand why there’s no classification through damage per bullet Dreiss>Timik/M4>Stark/Br. The “peak” damage bursts have gives them the advantage and removing 5 damage per bullet won’t defeat the purpose of those weapons because they’ll do 39/78 damage. This still allows a two burst to kill on most of the mercs if there are several heads in the mix, thus keeping the ttk advantage bursts have (both will fire two salvos when timik/m4 will have fire less than 4 bullets in the same amount of time). But on sustained fire or on enemy groups, this is going to be a lot harder.

I stop counting times where with stark, when I see groups of 2-3 enemies and then start to spray and prey, and finally save my ass and kill at least one of them in the process. This is something much harder to achieve with m4/timik and further worse with dreiss. And I don’t think this was the purpose of bursts. My theory would at least alleviate balance issues on sustained fire and give burst rifles a real drawback.

(watsyurdeal) #55

Well the other thing that really irks me about this game is how much random spread there is in it, and how recoil could be a better way to balance a lot of the guns than aim punch or random spread.

That and I kinda want to entertain the idea of the BR-16 becoming a 4 shot burst instead of 3, but idk how hard that would be to balance.