Sniper rifles - rant free (hopefully) balance discussion

(vdll) #1

Sniping in DB is challenging, but also very rewarding activity (mostly balanced, if you ask me).

Not so much, when it comes to the inner balance between rifles, since MOA does everything better (great body/head damage, good rate of fire and decent reload time) comparing to other Vassili’s guns.
I’m using MOA almost exclusively, partly because FEL-IX is a straight downgrade and PDP is rather derpy (although fun to play with).

My suggestion is the following: lower the damage of MOA to 60 AND increase it’s headshot multiplier to x2.5 (this way headshot will still inflict 150 dmg).

FEL-IX nerf by one point of damage kind of makes sense, so need to change it much imo. Previously FEL-IX was a hard counter to Aura (who also got nerfed substantially and now she’s even harder to use due to the addition of Nader and Fletcher).

As for PDP, perhaps a slight increase in headshot multiplier (45x2.2=99) would be beneficial, to encourage precise aiming.

Share your thoughts.

(watsyurdeal) #2

Imo, the Fe Lix should one shot anything light, and here’s why

The gun is a 50 cal, meaning it should be heavy in power, but limited for mobility and very hard to use to the same degree as the MoA.

Imo, the MoA is the more aggressive, offensive Sniper rifle, the Fe Lix is deintenyl more stationary.

I think the best thing to do, since recoil and accuracy are pretty much moot when it comes to Sniper Rifles, is have the MoA have less sway and overall better handling, but less damage unless you nail your headshots. The Fe Lix however should have more sway, and be overall more of a burden to use in anything but a stationary Sniper Role.

This makes a clear distinct between offense, and defense, while the PDP is more of a battle rifle and can be used for either or.

(vdll) #3

People hate sway and DB doesn’t need one. Can you imagine scope sway in Quake? The pace is too fast for sway, plus it would make sniping even more stationary and perhaps less useful for a team. Believe me or not, but I’m actually trying to help team while sniping, placing good scanners, killing HP stations, denying the objective etc.

As for bodyshots, I’m not fond of punishing light classes even more - we have so much explosives oneshotting them already.

(watsyurdeal) #4

It’d only be noticeable on the Fe Lix though, that’s the idea

For the power you get you get punished in terms of mobility and how flexible you are on offense. The MoA would allow people with great twitch aim to be rewarded, but they’d have to nail those shots, otherwise they’re likely to be mowed down.

[quote=“convincingMollusk;20543”]
As for bodyshots, I’m not fond of punishing light classes even more - we have so much explosives oneshotting them already.[/quote]

Well I hate to be a jerk but…tough shit, that’s the drawback with light classes, they sacrifice health for speed. You can’t have both, sorry.

(vdll) #5

I’m afraid that adding huge sway will make Felix even less popular than it is now. The idea is to bring balance and diversity while preserving the fun. Sway takes the fun away, no?

What kind of damage are you proposing, anyway?

(Szakalot) #6

[quote=“convincingMollusk;20552”]I’m afraid that adding huge sway will make Felix even less popular than it is now. The idea is to bring balance and diversity while preserving the fun. Sway takes the fun away, no?

What kind of damage are you proposing, anyway?[/quote]

back up to 80 with previous patch sway for felix would be fine.

At least youd get a clear distinction between the two rifles with felix being more stationary but packing a punch, with MOA being a mobile snipe.

Id like PDPs rate of fire increased at a cost of higher recoil, so you can spam shots but have to pull the mouse a lot, decreasing your accuracy.

(watsyurdeal) #7

[quote=“Szakalot;20574”]
back up to 80 with previous patch sway for felix would be fine.

At least youd get a clear distinction between the two rifles with felix being more stationary but packing a punch, with MOA being a mobile snipe.[/quote]

Exactly, though I’d go for a little more damage tho…I mean killing Auras in a body shot is ok and all, but not entirely useful…I think 100 damage would be best. Kind of makes the trade offs of more sway, harder to move around with, and overall just crappier handling more fair.

(titaniumCrouton) #8

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;20576”][quote=“Szakalot;20574”]
back up to 80 with previous patch sway for felix would be fine.

At least youd get a clear distinction between the two rifles with felix being more stationary but packing a punch, with MOA being a mobile snipe.[/quote]

Exactly, though I’d go for a little more damage tho…I mean killing Auras in a body shot is ok and all, but not entirely useful…I think 100 damage would be best. Kind of makes the trade offs of more sway, harder to move around with, and overall just crappier handling more fair.
[/quote]

I’d be fine with this personally. I mean with the mobility and the hitbox sizes in this game I think having a specalized sniper that can pull this off is fine, so long as there are heavier classes who can take a hit (headshot nonwithstanding)…can be kinda like our AWP :smiley:

(GildedDark) #9

I flat out HATE the MOA because it feels puny, the PDP imo wins out against the MOA. I LOVE the FEL-IX cause of its power I just wish it still one shoted Auras, and the sway I never notice it because ive used the FEL-IX so much Ive gotten used to it and know how to compensate for it

(vdll) #10

@Whatsyurdeal Are you sure you want to give Felix ability to OHOK 3 classes with bodyshot (including other snipers)? It doesn’t sound very balanced imo.

@Szakalot adding 1 more damage to Felix would be a direct anti-Aura countermeasure. What is your justification of this?

(Szakalot) #11

[quote=“convincingMollusk;20622”]@Whatsyurdeal Are you sure you want to give Felix ability to OHOK 3 classes with bodyshot (including other snipers)? It doesn’t sound very balanced imo.

@Szakalot adding 1 more damage to Felix would be a direct anti-Aura countermeasure. What is your justification of this?[/quote]

Felix will never be used if it just deals a little more bodyshot damage, compared to faster MOA that still kills everyone in one headshot

(titaniumCrouton) #12

[quote=“convincingMollusk;20622”]@Whatsyurdeal Are you sure you want to give Felix ability to OHOK 3 classes with bodyshot (including other snipers)? It doesn’t sound very balanced imo.

@Szakalot adding 1 more damage to Felix would be a direct anti-Aura countermeasure. What is your justification of this?[/quote]

Extremely slow to fire, low ammo count, large amount of sway…etc. That would pretty good justification.

(vdll) #13

Comparing to suggested MOA nerf, counter-suggestion about Felix damage buff has way more impact on overall class balance (we already have a lot of weapons/abilities one-shotting light classes). If MOA did 60 and Felix 79 damage, the difference may be big enough to actually make FX viable.

edit: @titaniumCrouton I wasn’t asking about ways to balance the gun. That 1 point of damage makes Felix anti-Aura gun and I’m not sure if we need to nerf Aura more (indirectly or not).
She is the only healing class available from the beginning and if we make her even weaker, we may scare newcommers away from playing healers in general.

(Gi.Am) #14

Full disclaimer I don’t play vassili (outside of free rotation), I’m not a sniper (my aim sucks and I’m not consistend enough to snipe).

That said I agree that the Felix and the PDP need buffs.

The Felix: simplest buff more damage.
Oneshotting Aura is fairgame imo. I would be even more crass and add proxy maybe even vasilli to the mix (would also mean that the Felix one headshots everything in the game).

How to balance the buffs out.
More sway. Smaller ammopool, decrease the magazine and overall spares you carry.
That would mean the Felix can’t stomp out a complete team in one go. It would also mean you would either have to make alot of trips to the ammobox leaving your position open or to depend on the fieldops (Yeah teamplay).

PDP I hardly snipe but when I do I use the PDP.

I think the problem with the PDP is that it is technically a Dreiss AR with a scope. But compaired with the Dreiss it sucks.
Because of the lower damage it can’t compete with the other snipers on long range. and in midrange/closerange it gets completly stomped by the Dreiss that has a higher ROF more ammo, more accuracy.
The advantages over the Dreiss are higher damage , punch trough shot, gib on headshot and the zoom of the scope. The scope on the other hand means more sway and more pronounced aimpunch.

How to buff it. Imo decrease the hipfire spread by a large amount. Right now the PDP has sniperrifle spread which means the gun is less accurate than a shotgun at hipfire. instead make it so accurate that you can actually land hipfireshots in close to near mid combat (still less accurate than the dreiss or the AR). This would give the PDP a different role compaired to the other snipers and would give vassilli a more aggressive option in the arsenal.

(Szakalot) #15

[quote=“convincingMollusk;20634”]Comparing to suggested MOA nerf, counter-suggestion about Felix damage buff has way more impact on overall class balance (we already have a lot of weapons/abilities one-shotting light classes). If MOA did 60 and Felix 79 damage, the difference may be big enough to actually make FX viable.
[/quote]

Nope it won’t. At least not in comp where snipe is used for headshot instagibs. Bodyshot damage is almost irrelevant.

(vdll) #16

I don’t know why are you so fond of sway mechanics, guys (unless you want sway on weapons you don’t use anyway).

Sway is not suitable for a fast paced game and is extremely frustrating, because it literally makes your aim worse.

Few weeks ago SD already decided that sway is a bad idea when things come to balancing rifles - they reverted increased sway mechanics for that exact reason.

@Szkalot The vast majority of any online game community is represented by casual gamers. You can’t balance whole game around competitive scene, represented by elite minority. If comp needs to have specific set of rules, you make a promod and let casuals have fun and fund your game.

(Szakalot) #17

[quote=“convincingMollusk;20657”]

@Szkalot The vast majority of any online game community is represented by casual gamers. You can’t balance whole game around competitive scene, represented by elite minority. If comp needs to have specific set of rules, you make a promod and let casuals have fun and fund your game.[/quote]

You are going to be disappointed. Game is balanced around comp, as SD hopes to make a dent in the esports arena.

Maps were build with 5v5 in mind. So where cooldowns on abilities, which is why 8v8 is a constant clustershag.

(vdll) #18

So every 5v5 is a competitive match now? To make any ‘dent’ on esports arena you need to build a huge playerbase of casuals, otherwise your game will die before you produce neccessary ammount of so called progamers.

Anyway, I’m not against the competitive scene, my point was that 29 damage is a big difference and probably will make Felix viable for casual gamers.

(Szakalot) #19

Nothing I disagree with. Except its not gonna happen, cause game is balanced around 5v5 : )

(deerYear) #20

at the moment MoA all day, its just superior to the other two.

i think felix should do more body dmg (maybe even up to 110)… and make it a REAL bolt action, where u have to load every single bullet. Put reload time to 1.25-ish seconds, which makes the weapon high risk high reward option for snipers and sway stays the same.

With a weapon of this kind u can interrupt chain revives etc. when u go for the priority targets (sawbonez), which u should as a sniper. This way the Felix will be very hard to use in an 8v8, i know that. But who want s to play 8v8 anyways lol

scale down moa body dmg to 60 or 55 and dont touch the PDP, that gives u 3 legit options for kinda different playstyles as a sniper.

IMO the best way to balance thos weapons for casual and competetive! Although i think as long as the moa 1 shots everybody in the head, it will be the #1 choice for competetive.