Small suggestion for Redeye

(titaniumCrouton) #1

it’s a small thing and it bothers me…Aside from kills he has no real way to rack up points (and objective, obviously) which sucks because he is generally doing a lot for his team through spotting (which barely awards anything) and smoke screens…(which awards…nothing.)

So, I was wondering if we could do something with his smoke to add in some kind of support EXP to it. As an example but not a definitive suggestion, why not get x amount of exp per enemy merc that is inside the smoke screen (can call it: Blinded.) That way we’re encouraged to use the smokes a bit more aggressively than a lot of Redeyes do (which is a good thing imo) and also gives him that extra small source of score that pretty much every other merc has.

And before anyone points out Vas, think about it: He instagibs on headshot meaning he gets full kill exp+full gib exp per trigger pull, along with a much wider and much more passive spotting system. Thus he ends up generating points far easier than the much more active Redeye does.

Anyway, just a small suggestion. It just bothers me that even if you’re playing a really good Redeye, you’ll almost never get the score to reflect that unless you’re getting an insane KDA…which isn’t the point of the game or the merc imo.

(_retired_) #2

"And before anyone points out Vas, think about it: He instagibs on headshot meaning he gets full kill exp+full gib exp per trigger pull,

Not all Vasilis get instakills per trigger pull. And how exactly that differs from Red Eye?
You can headshot through smoke with your goggles.

The problem with scoring you are describing is the same with other support characters like example Nader. You might clear a room and also cause splash damage which gives you small bits of score but it’s the others that kill and gib so they gain more kills and score.
Numerous times I have kept enemy on the bay with Nader or Arty but the score doesn’t reflect that in any way. If you want more score you have to most likely play objective based character. If I play with medic or engineer my scores usually skyrocket while my kills go down.

I don’t dislike your idea of “blinded” and I would even suggest there maybe should be points given from “spotting”, “area control” and even “gaining ground”. Which means that if you see an enemy which haven’t been seen before by other team members you get points while controlling area with shooting/with smoke/explosives means that enemy cannot enter it and you gain points that way.

(titaniumCrouton) #3

[quote=“crabbyDimension;62203”]And before anyone points out Vas, think about it: He instagibs on headshot meaning he gets full kill exp+full gib exp per trigger pull,
Not all Vasilis get instakills per trigger pull. And how exactly that differs from Red Eye?
You can headshot through smoke with your goggles.

The problem with scoring you are describing is the same with other support characters like example Nader. You might clear a room and also cause splash damage which gives you small bits of score but it’s the others that kill and gib so they gain more kills and score.
Numerous times I have kept enemy on the bay with Nader or Arty but the score doesn’t reflect that in any way. If you want more score you have to most likely play objective based character. If I play with medic or engineer my scores usually skyrocket while my kills go down.

I don’t dislike your idea of “blinded” and I would even suggest there maybe should be points given from “spotting”, “area control” and even “gaining ground”. Which means that if you see an enemy which haven’t been seen before by other team members you get points while controlling area with shooting/with smoke/explosives means that enemy cannot enter it and you gain points that way.[/quote]

Bolded: Because any experienced Vas can and will get headshots, if you’re not getting headshots you’re pretty much failing as Vas. Secondly, yes you can get headshots through smoke but his headshots don’t instagib on headshot like Vas, so the entire point is mute and or you were missing the point I was making entirely.

Italics: As someone who plays plenty of nader, I disagree entirely. I’ve never felt under represented. Also, once more it’s a poor comparison because you’re comparing a direct damage dealing ability to what I am suggesting which is an entirely support-oriented ability. I also don’t expect it to boost his score super high, just give him that extra nudge to actually give him SOME KIND of award for using it to support/help the team vs throwing it at his feet and blinding your teammates all day xP.

Last part: you do gain points for spotting and spot assist but spotting gives very little and spot assist are surprisingly hard to come by. The other idea, while nice is also rather complicated and very hard to put in from a design standpoint, but I do like the general idea of it.

I thank you for the critique and hopefully you don’t take my responses in the wrong way, I’m simply trying to be as “on the point” as I can be and address your points directly ^_^. But all in all I just want him to be rewarded for his smoke just because the extra pack of points would help greatly and for the fact his most team oriented ability does not reflect at all currently and that makes me really sad. I just wish the devs would actually weigh in on the subject.

(_retired_) #4

The point I tried to get across was that Nader’s nades play similar role as the smoke as they force the opposition back. Example when used in EV scenario people can be sure they aren’t in crossfire as nades in nice intervals keep the enemy under control in specific area.
Of course if there’s splash damage along with SMG play you could think of it as same as applying smoke first and then taking them out with goggle-rifle play.

I’m not against giving Red Eye extra score if you believe it is needed in case of smoke since I haven’t played with him yet. I just tried to comment this thing based how in general there are some “issues” (it’s not big problem) how the game gives scores since “invisible work” is quite often forgotten.

I would assume that you have gained good score with Nader when you have played close with other members of your team gaining score through that. When you go bit “alone” to keep opposition back in specific areas or example make opposition sniper to find new spots since nade spam, you aren’t getting lot of love in sense of score.

(GregHouseMD) #5

I think this is a good idea. Mercs will even call out that they can’t see, so there’s clearly a system in place already. I can’t imagine it’d be very difficult to give points, too.

(SaulWolfden) #6

Yeah I’d like to see a buff to the points given for spotting given how useful said spotting can end up being for a team. The idea of the smoke giving some points too would be a good thing. He’s a very supportive merc and thus should be rewarded for playing supportively.

(moonlitAbility) #7

yeah… i agree more stuff should be noted/scored. for instance standing in front of someone deliverying/defusing to take shots isnt scored, but usually very valuable. There are a lot of small but very meaningful actions throughout a match that isn’t ‘scored’. I wouldnt worry that much about it though, I think the whole score/stats system needs a complete overhaul IMO, there isnt nearly enough information to measure against

(Szakalot) #8

Dunno, i racked up +2.5k support xp purely from spotting for my team. You only get the xp if your spotting resulted in a teammate killing an enemy, spotting on its own doesn’t do nothing

(titaniumCrouton) #9

[quote=“crabbyDimension;62248”]The point I tried to get across was that Nader’s nades play similar role as the smoke as they force the opposition back. Example when used in EV scenario people can be sure they aren’t in crossfire as nades in nice intervals keep the enemy under control in specific area.
Of course if there’s splash damage along with SMG play you could think of it as same as applying smoke first and then taking them out with goggle-rifle play.

I’m not against giving Red Eye extra score if you believe it is needed in case of smoke since I haven’t played with him yet. I just tried to comment this thing based how in general there are some “issues” (it’s not big problem) how the game gives scores since “invisible work” is quite often forgotten.

I would assume that you have gained good score with Nader when you have played close with other members of your team gaining score through that. When you go bit “alone” to keep opposition back in specific areas or example make opposition sniper to find new spots since nade spam, you aren’t getting lot of love in sense of score.[/quote]

Eh, i’m glad you’re agreeing with me but you’re highly underselling smoke grenades and what there capable of imo. But still, no matter your thoughts on the nades themselves you in the end agree with me and I appreciate the support as that is what ultimately matters :slight_smile: thank you.

Which is nice but by comparison, lets look at overall ammo drop scores, revive/healing spam/hell even at the much more passive and constant spotting scores of Vas. Redeye just doesn’t stack up to any of them… I think he deserves to get all his tools counted, like most everyone else.

I mean 2.5k score…For him that is good, i’ll admit but look at it in the grand scheme of things…2.5k is not much and it relies on your team getting kills for you as opposed to the fact you’re helping your team in the first place. I say we can do better personally.

(Szakalot) #10

[quote=“titaniumCrouton;62351”][quote=“crabbyDimension;62248”]The point I tried to get across was that Nader’s nades play similar role as the smoke as they force the opposition back. Example when used in EV scenario people can be sure they aren’t in crossfire as nades in nice intervals keep the enemy under control in specific area.
Of course if there’s splash damage along with SMG play you could think of it as same as applying smoke first and then taking them out with goggle-rifle play.

I’m not against giving Red Eye extra score if you believe it is needed in case of smoke since I haven’t played with him yet. I just tried to comment this thing based how in general there are some “issues” (it’s not big problem) how the game gives scores since “invisible work” is quite often forgotten.

I would assume that you have gained good score with Nader when you have played close with other members of your team gaining score through that. When you go bit “alone” to keep opposition back in specific areas or example make opposition sniper to find new spots since nade spam, you aren’t getting lot of love in sense of score.[/quote]

Eh, i’m glad you’re agreeing with me but you’re highly underselling smoke grenades and what there capable of imo. But still, no matter your thoughts on the nades themselves you in the end agree with me and I appreciate the support as that is what ultimately matters :slight_smile: thank you.

Which is nice but by comparison, lets look at overall ammo drop scores, revive/healing spam/hell even at the much more passive and constant spotting scores of Vas. Redeye just doesn’t stack up to any of them… I think he deserves to get all his tools counted, like most everyone else.

I mean 2.5k score…For him that is good, i’ll admit but look at it in the grand scheme of things…2.5k is not much and it relies on your team getting kills for you as opposed to the fact you’re helping your team in the first place. I say we can do better personally.

[/quote]

i said: 2.5k SUPPORT XP, not score. 2.5k support xp is pretty damn good, thats 20-25 revives; or about 15 revives and 10 heals

(titaniumCrouton) #11

[quote=“Szakalot;62370”][quote=“titaniumCrouton;62351”][quote=“crabbyDimension;62248”]The point I tried to get across was that Nader’s nades play similar role as the smoke as they force the opposition back. Example when used in EV scenario people can be sure they aren’t in crossfire as nades in nice intervals keep the enemy under control in specific area.
Of course if there’s splash damage along with SMG play you could think of it as same as applying smoke first and then taking them out with goggle-rifle play.

I’m not against giving Red Eye extra score if you believe it is needed in case of smoke since I haven’t played with him yet. I just tried to comment this thing based how in general there are some “issues” (it’s not big problem) how the game gives scores since “invisible work” is quite often forgotten.

I would assume that you have gained good score with Nader when you have played close with other members of your team gaining score through that. When you go bit “alone” to keep opposition back in specific areas or example make opposition sniper to find new spots since nade spam, you aren’t getting lot of love in sense of score.[/quote]

Eh, i’m glad you’re agreeing with me but you’re highly underselling smoke grenades and what there capable of imo. But still, no matter your thoughts on the nades themselves you in the end agree with me and I appreciate the support as that is what ultimately matters :slight_smile: thank you.

Which is nice but by comparison, lets look at overall ammo drop scores, revive/healing spam/hell even at the much more passive and constant spotting scores of Vas. Redeye just doesn’t stack up to any of them… I think he deserves to get all his tools counted, like most everyone else.

I mean 2.5k score…For him that is good, i’ll admit but look at it in the grand scheme of things…2.5k is not much and it relies on your team getting kills for you as opposed to the fact you’re helping your team in the first place. I say we can do better personally.

[/quote]

i said: 2.5k SUPPORT XP, not score. 2.5k support xp is pretty damn good, thats 20-25 revives; or about 15 revives and 10 heals[/quote]

Gotcha, misread.

(CCP115) #12

Isn’t that similar to Phantom?

When he first came out, I was concerned about his selfishness, and how he contributed nothing to the team at all.

(titaniumCrouton) #13

[quote=“extravagentBypass;62450”]Isn’t that similar to Phantom?

When he first came out, I was concerned about his selfishness, and how he contributed nothing to the team at all.[/quote]

Not really…No.