Slowing down with every action?

(Evil-Doer) #1

So I dunno…Lot of thoughts running through my mind lately but I’m not always the best at articulating what I would like to get across.

Was really trying to play as a Fire Support today an get away from this all Medic mentality that seems to be plaguing game play lately. One thing that was really awesome about the older games was when you first spawned with your team mates the lieutenant could throw out all his meter worth of ammo to team mates, an keep trucking to the objective that is being attacked or your trying to attack. BUT, in this every action you do just bogs you down an deters you from wanting or doing what is logical at the spawn (Throwing ammo packs to team mates). My opinion is we should be able to keep up with team mates while moving to the objective an being able to fill up our team players.

On another note…We’ve seen a suggestion from Strychzilla saying that maybe instead of having every character drop ammo, they could drop class specific items per say. Right now…everything seems to deter from using other classes. Not only that the current setup almost says “Go out on your own,” and you can survive. You play medic, you can get ammo off all the bodies you kill, plus med yourself. You can go out as Engineer or Fire support, have ammo an regen your health? So no matter what class your almost enticing players to just rambo around an head hunt, rather than lean players towards team play.

Dunno, something really seems like it’s not encouraging team play an leaning people more towards just using medics an the occasional engineer to get the job done.

Main point though here; that I really wanted to ask about, was being able to throw packs of any sort by not losing momentum.

(Violator) #2

A bit OT (so is most of the post above ;)) but rambo medics are the current ‘annoying’ class, but its all part of the balancing process - we’ve had soldiers and engies being OP so its rambo meds (and mainly the comp/pro players which doesn’t help) atm. Not played medic myself but preventing meds picking up dead dudes ammo packs may help (if a bit artificial) or nerfing their main gun.

(BomBaKlaK) #3

Please no ! got to find another solution

(Mustang) #4

Haha ramboing aside medic primary weapon is my favourite in the game right now.

(INF3RN0) #5

Nerfing is not the right answer. I strongly believe that a big part of the system needs to be altered in a less destructive manner and instead make other weapons stronger. Other weapons don’t have to get stronger in terms of DPS, but instead become more accurate so that a player with more direct head tracking can overpower the Medic who is using what should function as an SMG (high rof/high fall off/low damage/low accuracy). Players who specialize in killing stuff ought to be picking the class that does it best, so if anyone really wants to medic they will be thinking less about healing themselves and more about healing a more capable killer. It’s important to remember that so far engineer, medic, and soldier have all been considered OP at some point, but it is important to separate players from class effectiveness before calling something OP. I’m going to be posting a big list (some collaboration hopefully) of ideas I’ve had regarding the weapon system later this week, and hopefully it will lead to some hot discussion between the devs/testers on the general subject.

(Violator) #6

The above is probably a more accurate answer. I guess making other weapons better than the medic weapon will achieve the same result as nerfing, but not annoy the meds too much. I haven’t played med (been trying each class in turn) so can’t really comment on how effective the weapon actually is, but the comments above suggest there is an issue - medic primary (in conjunction with medpacks at least) shouldn’t be the best weapon in the game. The order of effectiveness in close combat should be soldier -> engineer -> fldops/medic -> recon. As the weapons are so even currently the med dropping one pack on themselves makes all the difference to a 1-on-1, I don’t thinks its far off but needs a little tweaking, maybe the med only gets 1/2 of the pack health when used on themselves (the %age could be tweaked) - this was discussed in another thread iirc.

(Reacto) #7

Think nerfing the main gun could be pretty good, or reducing amounts of packs to 3. It’s pretty easy to jump around like a retard and get tons of kills with medic at the moment if you got decent aim,.

(dommafia) #8

Im with decreased health pack effectiveness for self healing meds. 4 packs to heal yourself would be more appropriate.

(Kendle) #9

Same conversation going on in another thread, perhaps we ought to have a “how do we balance Medics” thread and keep all discussion there?

(acQu) #10

The main point is OP arguing about slowdowns. Example: throw a med pack while running and it will slow you down. Pin a nade and it will slow you down, run around knifing and enjoy the slow mo. There are much more examples of these throughout the game, but i am not going to bother to count up. I just have to say i totally agree with OP, but think SD wants to achieve something here i do not understand.

The argumentation of these kind of slow downs make no sense to me, or there is something i don’t understand. The only argument i could imagine what would make sense to me is having this a projection of “realism” into the game. And even there this projection is not implemented consistent. I bet with you that i can run with a pulled nade in my hand just as fast as i could without.

The other argument was that by these slowdowns you want to implement the idea of a “cover based” game. Well, this is what i do not understand and find illogical. It is simply not the way to go imo, do not force people, do not tell them how to play, make the framework as widen as possible. These slowdowns always remind me of someone putting his hand on my shoulder to slow me down, while i want to start running. It is just highly annoying to me.

Phew, i feel better now :slight_smile:

(Hundopercent) #11

[QUOTE=acQu;425315]The main point is OP arguing about slowdowns. Example: throw a med pack while running and it will slow you down. Pin a nade and it will slow you down, run around knifing and enjoy the slow mo. There are much more examples of these throughout the game, but i am not going to bother to count up. I just have to say i totally agree with OP, but think SD wants to achieve something here i do not understand.

The argumentation of these kind of slow downs make no sense to me, or there is something i don’t understand. The only argument i could imagine what would make sense to me is having this a projection of “realism” into the game. And even there this projection is not implemented consistent. I bet with you that i can run with a pulled nade in my hand just as fast as i could without.

The other argument was that by these slowdowns you want to implement the idea of a “cover based” game. Well, this is what i do not understand and find illogical. It is simply not the way to go imo, do not force people, do not tell them how to play, make the framework as widen as possible. These slowdowns always remind me of someone putting his hand on my shoulder to slow me down, while i want to start running. It is just highly annoying to me.

Phew, i feel better now :)[/QUOTE]

I don’t think I could have worded this any better. I completely agree here.

(Evil-Doer) #12

[QUOTE=acQu;425315]The main point is OP arguing about slowdowns. Example: throw a med pack while running and it will slow you down. Pin a nade and it will slow you down, run around knifing and enjoy the slow mo. There are much more examples of these throughout the game, but i am not going to bother to count up. I just have to say i totally agree with OP, but think SD wants to achieve something here i do not understand.

The argumentation of these kind of slow downs make no sense to me, or there is something i don’t understand. The only argument i could imagine what would make sense to me is having this a projection of “realism” into the game. And even there this projection is not implemented consistent. I bet with you that i can run with a pulled nade in my hand just as fast as i could without.

The other argument was that by these slowdowns you want to implement the idea of a “cover based” game. Well, this is what i do not understand and find illogical. It is simply not the way to go imo, do not force people, do not tell them how to play, make the framework as widen as possible. These slowdowns always remind me of someone putting his hand on my shoulder to slow me down, while i want to start running. It is just highly annoying to me.

Phew, i feel better now :)[/QUOTE]

Right with ya on that man. This is definitely not a thread on a class being overpowered or a gun needing re-worked, that’s for sure. Mainly concerned about slow downs when doing actions. Keep in mind players when playing the game, that just because your seeing a lot of one class or getting killed by a certain class a lot doesn’t mean it’s overpowered. But, when we are seeing an over abundance of a class, their is some sort of balancing concern across the board. Which is the only reason I wanted to see what some peoples thoughts were.

(amazinglarry) #13

Just as a heads up I had started a thread specific to class specific drops that focuses on that idea (albeit named a bit weird… I remember beer)

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33667-quot-Gib-quot-Rewards

(ImageOmega) #14

I agree with the points made here. I don’t know if the intention is to slow down gameplay, but not being able to sprint while throwing packs or reloading really does this. Are we worried people are going to run away from a firefight too fast only to reload and heal/ammo up to get back into the fight quicker?

When you’re trying to give a teammate health or ammo while on the move you have to make a choice between moving quickly to the next objective (as that timer ticks) or lagging behind. Then, I guess there’s always the situation where your teammates will end up blowing right past you and your health and ammo.

Besides dropping packs, I think having to stop sprinting to reload also slows down gameplay. Isn’t the point of a tactical reload to be able to move quickly and reload to get back to the fighting faster? Or perhaps this allows us to close the distance on an enemy that is behind cover.

I guess the point is I can think of a lot of reasons why it would be better to keep sprinting and doing these actions, but not any real reasons to have to slow down in order to do any of the above.

(Evil-Doer) #15

[QUOTE=ImageOmega;425403]I agree with the points made here. I don’t know if the intention is to slow down gameplay, but not being able to sprint while throwing packs or reloading really does this. Are we worried people are going to run away from a firefight too fast only to reload and heal/ammo up to get back into the fight quicker?

When you’re trying to give a teammate health or ammo while on the move you have to make a choice between moving quickly to the next objective (as that timer ticks) or lagging behind. Then, I guess there’s always the situation where your teammates will end up blowing right past you and your health and ammo.

Besides dropping packs, I think having to stop sprinting to reload also slows down gameplay. Isn’t the point of a tactical reload to be able to move quickly and reload to get back to the fighting faster? Or perhaps this allows us to close the distance on an enemy that is behind cover.

I guess the point is I can think of a lot of reasons why it would be better to keep sprinting and doing these actions, but not any real reasons to have to slow down in order to do any of the above.[/QUOTE]

Really couldn’t have put it any better Image. Great post. The slow down factor really changes the flow an decision making in fights…an when leaving spawns to give packs an such.

(Cup-) #16

[QUOTE=acQu;425315]The main point is OP arguing about slowdowns. Example: throw a med pack while running and it will slow you down. Pin a nade and it will slow you down, run around knifing and enjoy the slow mo. There are much more examples of these throughout the game, but i am not going to bother to count up. I just have to say i totally agree with OP, but think SD wants to achieve something here i do not understand.

The argumentation of these kind of slow downs make no sense to me, or there is something i don’t understand. The only argument i could imagine what would make sense to me is having this a projection of “realism” into the game. And even there this projection is not implemented consistent. I bet with you that i can run with a pulled nade in my hand just as fast as i could without.

The other argument was that by these slowdowns you want to implement the idea of a “cover based” game. Well, this is what i do not understand and find illogical. It is simply not the way to go imo, do not force people, do not tell them how to play, make the framework as widen as possible. These slowdowns always remind me of someone putting his hand on my shoulder to slow me down, while i want to start running. It is just highly annoying to me.

Phew, i feel better now :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ImageOmega;425403]I agree with the points made here. I don’t know if the intention is to slow down gameplay, but not being able to sprint while throwing packs or reloading really does this. Are we worried people are going to run away from a firefight too fast only to reload and heal/ammo up to get back into the fight quicker?

When you’re trying to give a teammate health or ammo while on the move you have to make a choice between moving quickly to the next objective (as that timer ticks) or lagging behind. Then, I guess there’s always the situation where your teammates will end up blowing right past you and your health and ammo.

Besides dropping packs, I think having to stop sprinting to reload also slows down gameplay. Isn’t the point of a tactical reload to be able to move quickly and reload to get back to the fighting faster? Or perhaps this allows us to close the distance on an enemy that is behind cover.

I guess the point is I can think of a lot of reasons why it would be better to keep sprinting and doing these actions, but not any real reasons to have to slow down in order to do any of the above.[/QUOTE]

Both of these posts sum it up pretty well. It is more of an annoying hindrance to me and only interferes with the gameplay. I find it very frustrating that I cannot seamlessly do many of these actions without feeling penalized.