Sliding crouch

[rookie1]

This sliding/shooting animation seem well done at first look

[Kendle]

Kendle there is a least one guy hear (not me) who is missing a finger, and besides does there have to be a single way this can be used? There is more than one way of skinning a tapir:D

Oh dear, sorry to hear that, but I guess the point is my suggestion doesn’t involve using any keys other than the ones already used for movement, so I’m not sure a full set of fingers is actually required. To jump over something you need to press forward and jump (2 keys), to slide you need to press sprint and crouch (2 keys).

[warbie]

I’m against sliding as it doesn’t, for me anyway, add anything fun or interesting to the game. It’s not as annoying as going prone during a fight, but on the same scale. Out of interest, why do people want it? To slide round a corner to escape, or just another method of evasion in combat? I can see it now in my mind’s eye - people sliding about in combat and shooting each other in the legs

The way I see it happening is you first press sprint, to sprint, then whilst still holding sprint press crouch to effectively “sprint in a crouched position”, i.e. slide. This is simple and intuitive IMO.

I’m with you on double tapping being a bad thing, but your suggestion wouldn’t work for me as I use the same finger to sprint and crouch. Either way, this all seems like a needless addition to me and waaaaaaaaaaay down on the list of things that need looking at.

[Raviolay]

Oh dear, sorry to hear that, but I guess the point is my suggestion doesn’t involve using any keys other than the ones already used for movement, so I’m not sure a full set of fingers is actually required. To jump over something you need to press forward and jump (2 keys), to slide you need to press sprint and crouch (2 keys).

It’s not just that, think of it this way mate, why is there a toggle option in most games for crouching and sprinting. It’s not there to make the game more simple, well not in my eyes. It’s purpose to to reduce the amount of strain you put on your hands, I mean if you are unfortunate to have early onset arthritis. Or even not holding down lot of keys at the same time is not good for your hands, it’s why I had to stop playing mmo’s until the naga mouse came out.

Plenty of games have many presets for flying & driving why not one for sliding? Don’t get me wrong I agree your system is easier to understand and get to grips with. I just don’t think my hand will be best pleased after a hour or so of playing.

I’m with you on double tapping being a bad thing, but your suggestion wouldn’t work for me as I use the same finger to sprint and crouch. Either way, this all seems like a needless addition to me and waaaaaaaaaaay down on the list of things that need looking at.

You can have two keys do the same function mate you could use C and Ctrl as Crouch. Then you only need use Shift and C to control your slide, and Ctrl if you want to just crouch as normal.

[Kendle]

Either way, this all seems like a needless addition to me and waaaaaaaaaaay down on the list of things that need looking at.

Despite seeming like I’m championing this idea I do agree with you, I’d much rather they add strafe-jumping first for example, but even then after they’ve removed movement acceleration not to mention addressed the many gameplay issues that remain.

[iwound]

it sounds cool but it doesn’t add anything to gameplay. infact it could have a negative impact.
i dont want to get stuck in an animation when im sliding and realise i have to change my movement but arggh! cant because im still sliding.
i don’t think this idea has legs. excuse the pun.

[Bloodbite]

Just as a point of reference as another example… this vid is from a the phone/tablet game Modern Combat 3… I haven’t played 3 but I do have 4.on my phone

In 4 the slide seems much more natural and fluid by comparison. You have to press the crouch button while sprinting to activate the slide… I have used it as a way of dodging bullets. Coming head on from those that have been going for a headshot, and sometimes just to mix things up and evade a spray of bullets from the side while going for a zone control objective, or a CTF grab/cap, or even just to slide below an exposed window and maintain cover.

If it were to be implemented, I think the Sprint -> Crouch combo is the way to go. It doesn’t interrupt finger real estate and is neither too simple like the SMART key, or too fiddly like some sort of Street Fighter -esque combo.

And if shooting were enabled while sliding, reality would dictate that you’d lose momentum if shooting head on, or slide out on your arse if turning and shooting… I mean the lack of that realism worked really well in Bulletstorm, but Bulletstorm is super arcadey and meant to be goofy fun, but I don’t see that arcadey approach fitting into the feel of DB gunplay.

Plus, evasion slides with no gunplay mean less netcode data processing than WITH gunplay AND physics based momentum that can actually change based on firepower, surface level/material/etc. Like in the video I included, you’ll inevitably see twits sliding what could have been 2 steps to get a stylish kill. Or like the excessive bunny hopping people do in games like CoD, the annoying kind of strafe jumping.

Perhaps that should be the first question that needs to be answered; how much of an impact would this new mechanic have on netcode if it happened to be abused during a match? If it could possibly create lag for someone, the answer should be NO, and that would be the end of it.

I still like the idea of evasion slides, no gunplay. I would like to see it at least attempted in a build, but never at the expense of a match’s performance.

[kilL_888]

put my answers/opinions in bold.

So my general questions:

• [li]How will sliding be activated? Will it be annoying and occur when players don’t want to slide or will it be achieved by 1 key that does it all?
  [/li]
  
  you need so sprint and tap crouch in order to activate the slide. it can’t be activated if you only just started to sprint. there needs to be a delay so you don’t spam it all the time.
  
  
  [li]How much control will we have over sliding? Will it be clumsy and useless? How will movement speed affect the distance you slide? How far can you slide? Will you be able to cancel sliding mid way through the slide, if so surely this will have an impact on the ability to hit the model?
  [/li]
  
  slight control, see brink for reference. not like in crysis2/3 where it feels more restrictive. since you need to sprint to activate the slide, the effect the movement speed has on slide will be always the same. should be used for small distances only. no cancel.
  
  
  [li]How will sliding add a skillful element to the game? – It sounds like a fairly simple and basic thing, I don’t see how it can provide a learning curve to “master”.
  [/li]
  
  not everything needs to be super skillfull. it adds a evasion element, you can use situationally to get behind cover more quickly, or to at least reduce your hitbox for a short period of time. the skill is to use it in the right moment because it should also limit your ability to fire your weapon. (imho, it should prevent you from shooting your weapon or massively increase bullet spread radius.)
  
  
  [li]How will the transition to the slide occur, will the fov/camera angle change dramatically (third person?) or will it be smooth and 1st person to allow aiming? Will it provide a benefit to the player sliding to avoid taking hits?
  [/li]
  
  mechanically i think brink did a pretty decent job with the sliding mechanic. so, no change in fov, no change in camera. it should allow aiming but should prevent you from firing. yes, the purpose should be to avoid getting hit.
  
  
  [li]Would sliding be a generic part of the movement system for all classes, or would different classes have different abilities during sliding (able to shoot/knockdown/slide fast/immune from damage)?
  [/li]
  
  tough question. knockdowns and damage immunity are bad ideas imho. i think using it as a general/generic movement mechanic for all classes is the easiest way to implement it.
  
  
  [li]Would the ability to slide be unlimited or would there be a cool down period to the number of times you could slide? And how would you display this without cluttering the HUD even more?
  [/li]
  
  there should be a cooldown. there should also be a delay between you starting the sprint and be able to slide, so you don’t spam the sliding all the time. it should really only be used situationally or if no enemy is around. it disables your ability to use your gun, so you have to use it carefully.
  
  
  [li]How would sliding affect the spread and recoil of the weapons?
  [/li]
  
  you should not be able to slide and shoot at the same time. if it still allows you to shoot, it should massively increase the spread, making it effectively impossible to hit the target you’re aiming at.
  
  
  
  [li]You could also say this would further increase the TTK with the current weapons, which is something that is already slightly too high and wouldn’t want to increase.
  [/li]
  
  i’m all in for higher TTK. i hate the quick cod style TTK. i liek to dance with my opponents, to duel. i hate getting killed almost instantly.
  
  
  [li]The long term population of Dirtybomb will more than likely be the loyal playerbase from previous games such as ET:QW/W:ET/RTCW in which none of these games had a sliding mechanic or needed one.
  [/li]
  
  i consider myself to be part of that loyal playerbase, even though i rarely play nowadays. i strongly believe though that the movement mechanics in brink were a evolution to wolf:et and etqw and i wouldn’t wanna miss it. maybe it’s not perfect but it’s a step forward, and not backwards.
  
  
  [li]If you are able to slide, why can you not strafe jump or lean which are key aspects of the movement system in previous games and would be more relevant in Dirtybomb gameplay.
  [/li]
  
  strafe jump are very arcady, lean is the opposite. i think these are two contradicting gameplay mechanics that shouldn’t be mixed together. i personally never used the lean in prior titles and i’m not sure how popular it was in general. and as much as i love the quake series (plus wolf:et and etqw) i think it’s silly to jump around like a maniac in a more realistic shooter. it feels dull and doesn’t really fit in a realistic environment.
  
  
  [li]If sliding was class based and varied in the benefit it could provide, it would require greater effort to balance the classes as even more variables introduced.
  [/li]
  
  true and because of this i think this mechanic should be equal throughout all the classes
  

[Mustang]

[QUOTE=Raviolay;440033]“You can only start sliding by sprinting and then pressing crouch”
&
“Releasing sprint whilst sliding immediately stops the slide and the player remains crouching”

So are we supposed to hold two keys, after letting go of one and pressing another?

How about.

While in a slide if you let of the crouch key you stop and stand up. Double ( edit* or press immediately after letting go) tap the crouch key in a slide to stop in a crouched position & press and hold sprint while in a slide to transition to a sprint from a slide.[/QUOTE]
Think I know what the problem is here.

I use press and hold to sprint and press and hold to crouch.

I (wrongly) assumed that everyone else did also, I guess you use toggle crouch (and maybe toggle sprint as well).

In which case, yes it would be a second tap to cancel if toggle is enabled, or a key release if push and hold is enabled.

[spookify]

Would this be a third crouch options?

Crouch
Toggle Crouch
Sliding Crouch

Would you not be able to shoot while sliding or would your spread be kicked up?

I am not sure if I am for or against it yet with out playing with and against it. As long as the hit boxes are good and it doesn’t cause any visual glitching or delays I might be OK with it.

Could slide be spammed or could you bob the HS hit box to give you an advantage?

[Raviolay]

To be honest the best thing to do is play test suggestions, you can argue for and against till your blue in the face. Until a prototype is up and running no one has a clue how it will be.

[warbie]

Or just decide against it full stop - then there’s nothing test and no possible problems. Hoorah!! \o/

[INF3RN0]

Or just decide against it full stop - then there’s nothing test and no possible problems. Hoorah!! \o/

I want to put that as my sig, even though I know your being sarcastic- I think .

Sliding has been done really poorly in most games that have it. I think it’s interesting as a movement maneuver for some situations, but definitely don’t want slide fests 24/7. Same reason I don’t rule SMART out as a bad idea just because it wasn’t implemented past a console standard.

[sunshinefats]

Speaking personally I don’t like the idea of pressing crouch while sprinting to slide. Suppose I just want to crouch out of a sprint? Now I can’t…that’s a bit too restrictive to movement for me. I’d prefer, if we’re going to do it, just go ahead and have an extra key for it. So I can slide from a sprint or I can just crouch out of a sprint. More freedom of movement=more fun (for me anyhoo).
Also, I’d ideally like to be able to fire while doing it(even if only the pistol).
And have we come to a consensus(spelled that wrong didn’t I?) on how much distance we want the slide to travel?

[Mustang]

Speaking personally I don’t like the idea of pressing crouch while sprinting to slide. Suppose I just want to crouch out of a sprint? Now I can’t…that’s a bit too restrictive to movement for me. I’d prefer, if we’re going to do it, just go ahead and have an extra key for it. So I can slide from a sprint or I can just crouch out of a sprint. More freedom of movement=more fun (for me anyhoo).

Not restrictive at all.

To go from sprint to crouch without sliding you can do one of the following:

• [With push to sprint] Release sprint key before pressing crouch key
• [With toggle to sprint] Tap sprint key to disable sprint before pressing crouch key
• [With toggle to sprint] Release forward key to disable sprint before pressing crouch key, and if you wish forward key again

Takes a little getting used to, but it’ll become natural very quickly.

Also, I’d ideally like to be able to fire while doing it(even if only the pistol).

Of course, it’s a must, pretty much goes without saying.

[Nail]

actually gotta agree wit… leave it out, especially for now. if needed, figure out a way to add it later, say, in a patch

[kilL_888]

actually gotta agree wit… leave it out, especially for now. if needed, figure out a way to add it later, say, in a patch

you mean after release? i think it’s a bad idea to add core gameplay mechanics via patch after launch.

[Verticae]

I understand the sentiment though. In the end, I can’t see a sliding mechanic as much more than a gimmick - not something that should eat into the time that could be used for other features.

[Kendle]

Personally I think SD should decide whether they want to put time and effort into additional movement mechanics now, or not, because it would be a core gameplay element and could have knock on effects.

For example, if they add slide they could add things like a half open garage door that you have to crouch to get under. Sliding could enable you to get under the door without having to slow down. So having slide, or not, could affect map design.

If they’re going to add slide however they should think about all the other movement mechanics that could separate this game from the crowd, like wall-jumping (bouncing off a wall to gain height, to get over a higher wall perhaps) and climbing (jumping at a high wall and grabbing the edge to haul yourself over). These things would impact on map design, no point having them if there’s nowhere in the map to use them, no point adding these elements to the maps if the mechanics don’t exist to exploit them.

This is a pretty fundamental thing and they should really decide at an early stage whether they’re going to do it or not, IMO.

[Bloodbite]

ditto on deciding now rather than later.

Another huge problem with adding something this significant after release is how badly it could impact on the game’s reputation. Look at how many people are still holding a grudge over the changes W:ET made to the RTCW formula… or the SMART button from Brink, and those were in the released products. It’s all because of that Enemy Territory legacy they hold near and dear.

WHen you figure having people accustomed to their growing routines and tactics only to have to now re-evaluate everything about how they play through the game, and how they’re going to have to deal with others using the new mechanic… there would be whining, flaming, and permanent rage-quits.

It’s guaranteed to have some degree of negative blacklash… it’s not worth the trouble to leave it till later.