Size Problem!

(Zigge) #1

So I built a map and I went and tested it and everything was very big and was not in ratio with the player. Does anyone have any tips to build a map that has a good size ratio with the player model? So it looks nice?

(SCDS_reyalP) #2

The player spawn entities are the size of a players bounding box, which can give you a rough guide.

Another guide is that 1 unit in radiant is 1 inch. (player are 72 units tall, e.g. 6ft). This isn’t nearly as handy if you are a metric user :moo: In general, you want to build things a bit bigger than this scale would suggest, because otherwise movement is restricted and your map feels cramped. See this thread http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=3843 for more info.

(Loffy) #3

…I went and tested it and everything was very big…

A very common problem.
Just have a look at my map Darji2.

(Image showing Darji2.)
I remember my kids said “DAD! You are making the map TOO BIG!” Still, I thought it was OK. But, it wasn’t! I feel like an ant when I run around in that Very Large Map.
You asked for any tip on how to work in the editor to get proper-sized maps. I have no good tip sorry.
In the game, and this is really my best advice, I load the map in unpure mode and I switch between first- and third-person view.
I use the testconfig written by Ifurita, and it allows me to press a button to switch to third-person-view. Super!
Download and use that Ifurita testmap-config, perfect for mappers! I’m at work now, so I don’t have the link for it, but you’ll get get it here later.
//Loffy

(Loffy) #4

OK, here it is. Just copy and paste into note-pad or similar. Then rename file to testserver.cfg and put it in your etmain-folder.


//Map Development Config by Ifurita 10/11/04
//Server Settings
set r_lockpvs 0 set r_clear 0
bind "u" vstr lockview set lockview vstr lockview1
set lockview1 "set lockview vstr lockview0;echo PVS Locked;r_lockpvs 1;r_clear 1"
set lockview0 "set lockview vstr lockview1;echo PVS Unlocked;r_lockpvs 0;r_clear 0"

seta sv_pure "0"
seta g_gametype "2"
seta g_bluelimbotime "1000" //1 second respawn without screwing with the .script file
seta g_redlimbotime "1000"

seta g_engineerchargetime "250" //allows engies to build faster
seta g_LTchargetime "250"  // allows field ops to spam arty
seta g_speed "320" // 320 is default. Increase to 500 if you want more speed.
timescale 1 // Normal timescale. (Default 1.)

Game Settings

seta con_drawnotify "1"
seta com_maxfps "0" //to uncap my FPS to see where I take hits

//Editor keys

// Speaker edit keys
bind KP_Home "editspeakers"
bind KP_uparrow "dumpspeaker"
bind KP_pgup "modifyspeaker"
bind KP_del "undospeaker"

// Triscount information
bind KP_leftarrow "toggle r_speeds" //toggles r_speed display on and off
bind KP_5 "cycle r_showtris 0 2" // cycles thru the 3 showtris states

// Screenshot stuff
bind KP_rightarrow "toggle cg_draw2d" //Used for clean screenshots
bind KP_end "noclip; Echo No Clip" //fly though walls!!!
bind KP_ins "toggle cg_thirdperson" //found that this was nice to see how light fell on the player model

// Developer, script debug, and map_restart
bind KP_downarrow "toggle developer; echo Developer Mode"
bind KP_pgdn "generatetracemap" //must be in developer mode first
bind KP_plus "toggle g_scriptdebug"
bind KP_enter "map_restart"

I have a shortcut on my desktop with the properties:


"C:\Program\Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory\ET.exe" +exec testserver.cfg +devmap mymap

I just double click on the shortcut to launch ET, the testserver config and the map called mymap.
//L.

(D3C0Y) #5

i think they should put in a standing full player model in the next version of gtk/radiant… so that you can check size in radiant - the hammer-editor for halflife has this and i found that very usefull

(.Chris.) #6

allthough i dont use this myself as i just use my eyes to figure it out read this for appropriate sizes in your maps: http://games.chruker.dk/enemy_territory/measurements.php

looks pretty usefull

(FireFly) #7

My tip: have a look at the goldrush.map just to see what sizes they used for doors, windows, railings etc…

(Zigge) #8

Thanks for the help and links guys and if still anyone has more ideas that would be cool. I have tried looking at gold rush and stuff but its so choppy on my pc its just a headach.

(SCDS_reyalP) #9

The spawn entities give you the players bounding box, which is pretty much the same thing.

(Bondo) #10

but its so choppy on my pc its just a headach.

Do you have Cubic Clipping enabled or diabled? It makes a world of difference.

(D3C0Y) #11

the box is the actual size of the ingame player model ?

(EB) #12

NO [edit>], not really. Visually…yes-the same size. In -gameplay …NO.[/edit]
http://games.chruker.dk/enemy_territory/measurements.php

I make my doors a little bigger than Chruker suggests and even before I saw his suggested size…for playability.
IMO…the crawling measurement for rotation is 56 for an easier but still tight spin.
You’ll have to play with the suggestions but the spawn entities do not reflect full model size.

(SCDS_reyalP) #13

[quote=“D3C0Y”]

the box is the actual size of the ingame player model ?[/quote]
It’s the size of the players bounding box, which pretty much encloses the model. In particular, it is almost exactly as tall as the model is.

e.g:

The red box here should line up exactly with a player spawn entity.

You’ll have to play with the suggestions but the spawn entities do not reflect full model size.

Unless you are just pointing out that the gun and the tip of the hat stick out occasionally, this is incorrect.

However, as I previously mentioned, building things to a scale that is ‘realistic’ with respect to the player models is too cramped for gameplay.

(EB) #14

The CTF_SPAWNS [ measure X = 36 / Y = 36 / Z = 72 ] (Bounding box also)

The reason why I stated “NO” earlier is because; If you base a tunnel/hallway on the sizing of the boundingbox…the player models simply will not fit in the hallway.

-They need more room than 36x72. Therefore meaning that visually they are the size of the bounding box…BUT using that sizing for scale will get you nowhere fast !
Basically, do not make your ceilings 72 units high or you will have to crouch into every room.
do not make any hallways 36 units wide because you’ll never even make it into the hall.

P.S. When I said suggestions earlier…I was referring to the sizing chart on that site.

Exactly what I am saying but in a completely different way.

(]UBC[ McNite) #15

Dudes u really discuss this too theoretical:

Best idea to check on size is to run around in the compile using thirdpersonview. That way you can see your player from the “outside”.
The console-commands for this are:

cg_thirdpersonview 1
cg_thirdpersonangle X (i use 90 most of the time)
cg_thirdpersonrange X (this is how far you will be away from the playermodel, try 150 for a start)

With cg_thirdpersonview 0 u are back to normal view.

Don’t make the mistake to build a map in “real” dimensions (1 unit = 2.5 cm) because the movement in ET is a bit faster/scaled up. If you build “real” everything will be just too narrow and u ll get stuck everywhere.
Don’t worry about building too big at the start… everybody does that. I had to resize about 80% of my buildings in The River II after I did the first test with thirdpersonview :disgust:

Rough measures that I use are:
simple door is 96 units high and 48 wide (u want more if its an exit of a spawn though)
simple stone walls are 16 units thick
rooms should have at least 128 units to the ceiling
passageways should have at least 96 units width so 2 players can pass each other well
steps are smooth with 12 units height and 20 units depth (16 units is the highest a player can get up without jumping, but tends to feel bumpy)

Always try your new rooms out by running and jumping around in them… smooth moving is a very important thing for ET, getting stuck and bumping into things only sucks.

(D3C0Y) #16

yes we know about the cg_thirdperson , I’m discussing the point here that it is much handier to estimate the size in the editor itself becaus its saves a lot of work