Since people hate snipers

(Bestfinlandball) #1

It’s no secret that people hate snipers in Dirty Bomb. I for one, don’t mind them, but that’s mainly because i love playing them. Another thing people aren’t too fond of is the whole Recon class.

My idea is to merge the three snipers that we currently have into one merc. This merc would have access to submachineguns as primaries, and pistols as secondaries.

Here’s the interesting part, the abilities.
Pretty much everyone thinks that Vassilis heartbeat sensor is superior to the snitch, especially now that the sniper bodyshot damage was nerfed. The HS, however, is extremely powerful as it does not require line of sight to spot people. Therefore I think that the second ability should be redeyes IR-goggles.
My idea is to give a bolt-action sniper to a merc as an ability weapon. Alongside the sniper rifle, he/she could get the IR goggles as a secondary ability to spot people. (no smoke though).

The Sniper Rifle
I want to keep this relatively simple. 5 shots in a magazine, each getting a 7-second cooldown, 35 seconds in total.

The IR-Goggles

Pretty much as it is now, but there wouldn’t really be a need for the IR effect since the smoke wouldn’t be there.

(watsyurdeal) #2

Not unless we plan to do the same thing to the other mercs, which would basically be it’s own game.

(Sorotia) #3

Not that I hate snipers, I’m just tired of (Maybe even hate) all these players that obviously don’t have the aim to play a sniper but they refuse to change merc, so it’s like you’re down a man because they’re almost useless.

(Gamersallday147) #4

I’m actually there with you id ready remove the sniper rifles and give the mercs submachineguns the problem of giving that particualer merc a sniper rifle as ability is kinda stupid I’d rather like bf4 the recon gets access to traps like proxy’s mines. And i would keep vassili in but with a sub machine gun and the heartbeat sensor with a second abilities as to maybe a special trap. And honestly i would keep aimee the same. And maybe change her ability a little bit. Redeye i think hes just fine most pple who play him are the new players when they see that hes on free rotation. And as sorotia says pple that play sniper refuse to change mercs kick them, thats all i do i try to kick them to teach them that they need to learn when to switch off of sniper and play something better. And merging all snipers is not a good idea in my opinion. And doing that would break the storyline like rogue En vogue when they released aimee for the first him plus shes weak she only has a pistol and her secondary not a machine pistol like vassili and you can use the pdp against her on headshot will take her down. I just think the only recon merc that should be changed is either Aimee or vassili.

(Bestfinlandball) #5

@Gamersallday147 said:
I’m actually there with you id ready remove the sniper rifles and give the mercs submachineguns the problem of giving that particualer merc a sniper rifle as ability is kinda stupid I’d rather like bf4 the recon gets access to traps like proxy’s mines. And i would keep vassili in but with a sub machine gun and the heartbeat sensor with a second abilities as to maybe a special trap. And honestly i would keep aimee the same. And maybe change her ability a little bit. Redeye i think hes just fine most pple who play him are the new players when they see that hes on free rotation. And as sorotia says pple that play sniper refuse to change mercs kick them, thats all i do i try to kick them to teach them that they need to learn when to switch off of sniper and play something better. And merging all snipers is not a good idea in my opinion. And doing that would break the storyline like rogue En vogue when they released aimee for the first him plus shes weak she only has a pistol and her secondary not a machine pistol like vassili and you can use the pdp against her on headshot will take her down. I just think the only recon merc that should be changed is either Aimee or vassili.

Yeah i can definitely see why merging the snipers wouldn’t work, but i really wouldn’t mind as long as the game carries the open beta tag. Betas are for testing, but SD treats the game a lot like a full release

(henki000) #6

If we make sniper rifles or secondary weapons more powerfull, then there wouldnt be that much casual people kicking casual snipers, in casual game. It’s wrong against new player that when they have saved all their credits and finally get their hands on sniper. Some more experienced player get angry and start vote kicking. Where do you suppose to train your aim or abilities? Nobody is good sniper when they start, but I have seen amazing natural talents on other mercs.

(TheStrangerous) #7

Pfff… maybe add wind and weather mechanic + gravity, to turn sniping into golf, just like in Sniper Elite series.

Nah, just kidding!

(Sorotia) #8

@henki000 said:
If we make sniper rifles or secondary weapons more powerfull, then there wouldnt be that much casual people kicking casual snipers, in casual game. It’s wrong against new player that when they have saved all their credits and finally get their hands on sniper. Some more experienced player get angry and start vote kicking. Where do you suppose to train your aim or abilities? Nobody is good sniper when they start, but I have seen amazing natural talents on other mercs.

Maybe you start learning to use a gun that takes less skill, that you’re not basically a useless troll to your team?

You know…basic weapons training? People don’t just walk up and say “Hey, I want to be a sniper” you learn with basic weaponry and if you have the skill you move up to a sniper rifle.

(henki000) #9

@Sorotia

There should be no guns that require more or less skill. It should be balanced. People can still troll their teams with any weapons, but snipers are playing the main role in this circus. Guns dont kill people, people do.

(GatoCommodore) #10

@henki000 said:
@Sorotia

There should be no guns that require more or less skill. It should be balanced. People can still troll their teams with any weapons, but snipers are playing the main role in this circus. Guns dont kill people, people do.

sniper requires more skill to shoot
you think a green horn in the army, who just got drafted can shoot high precision sniper rifle from the start?

if anybody can shoot the sniper rifle “THE RIGHT WAY” at the start of the game, then you should quit playing the game because everything just one shots you if you walk outside of the spawn.

(Sorotia) #11

@henki000 said:
@Sorotia

There should be no guns that require more or less skill. It should be balanced. People can still troll their teams with any weapons, but snipers are playing the main role in this circus. Guns dont kill people, people do.

I think you’re living in a dream world pal, like @GatoCommodore said, there isn’t anyone out the gate that immediately picks up a Sniper rifle, ever.

Sniper rifle require skill and precision, no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise. RL and in games.

(henki000) #12

@GatoCommodore
@Sorotia

There is hunters and you can literally buy your sniper rifle from closest XXL sportwear shop here. Literally even child can shoot sniper rifle. They dont sell automatic weapons and in army they gave me RK 62 as a first weapon to shoot. You werent allowed to shoot automatic fire with that AR, because it’s mostly useless in combat. Instead 300 meter was still realistic distance to one shot someone. Shooting 300 meter with sniper rifle is much easier than with AR. Mercs are fast in Dirty Bomb. How do you suppose to hit that speedjumping and flicking proxy anyway?

(Sorotia) #13

@henki000 said:
@GatoCommodore
@Sorotia

There is hunters and you can literally buy your sniper rifle from closest XXL sportwear shop here. Literally even child can shoot sniper rifle. They dont sell automatic weapons and in army they gave me RK 62 as a first weapon to shoot. You werent allowed to shoot automatic fire with that AR, because it’s mostly useless in combat. Instead 300 meter was still realistic distance to one shot someone. Shooting 300 meter with sniper rifle is much easier than with AR. Mercs are fast in Dirty Bomb. How do you suppose to hit that speedjumping and flicking proxy anyway?

So? They sell them, what is your bloody point? What do they use them for?

They sure as hell don’t use those rifles to take out mercenaries…those scopes and rifles that you’d by at your local store aren’t nearly as powerful as a professional sniper rifle.

Big difference between a defenseless dear a hundred feat away and a combatant that is over a thousand meters away.

(henki000) #14

@Sorotia

No, .308 caliber is used in many sniper rifles and in military use. My point is that shooting sniper is easier and more safe irl than automatic weapons. You said sniper rifle requires skill and precision, but shooting one is much easier than AR or even handgun. Bears and mooses has actually better tolerance than unprotected humans. Bulletproof vests are expensive and usually dont save you from a .308 bullet. Vests are also dispensable when they get hit. Here is proof that you can buy .308 sniper from local sportwear shop: https://www.xxl.fi/sauer-sauer-202-synchro-xt-308-win-kivaari/p/1115599_1_style

You get even bigger calibers in real gun shop.

The reason why not everyone shoot sniper rifles in army is that good scopes are more expensive than the weapon itself. Sniper rifle bullets are also much more expensive, not even mention military use exploding bullets or tracer ammunition. The other reason is that shooting itself is little bit old-fashioned. They have scopes in assault rifles and the most importan part is military logistic and airspace control.

(Sorotia) #15

So basically you’re admitting we’re right…thanks for being honest.

They don’t just hand out advanced, expensive, and powerful equipment to inexperienced personnel in RL, just like that equipment shouldn’t be handed up to newbs in DB.

It takes skill and experience to snipe, in RL and in DB.

(GatoCommodore) #16

@henki000 said:
@Sorotia

No, .308 caliber is used in many sniper rifles and in military use. My point is that shooting sniper is easier and more safe irl than automatic weapons. You said sniper rifle requires skill and precision, but shooting one is much easier than AR or even handgun. Bears and mooses has actually better tolerance than unprotected humans. Bulletproof vests are expensive and usually dont save you from a .308 bullet. Vests are also dispensable when they get hit. Here is proof that you can buy .308 sniper from local sportwear shop: https://www.xxl.fi/sauer-sauer-202-synchro-xt-308-win-kivaari/p/1115599_1_style

You get even bigger calibers in real gun shop.

The reason why not everyone shoot sniper rifles in army is that good scopes are more expensive than the weapon itself. Sniper rifle bullets are also much more expensive, not even mention military use exploding bullets or tracer ammunition. The other reason is that shooting itself is little bit old-fashioned. They have scopes in assault rifles and the most importan part is military logistic and airspace control.

the reason is why military arent handing out bolt-action high caliber precision rifles to grunts is the ease of use.

not everybody has the need for such guns.
For example, back in Falklands war, both sides have the same rifles (FAL) but into the middle of the war british high command decided to phase out full automatic feature from the british infantry L1A1(SLR) because when it runs on full auto it was very inaccurate, hard to handle and most important part is to save ammunition. The high command demand infantry to be more accurate.

not long after that, british soldiers starts to ditch their semi-automatic rifles for their argentinian counterpart which has the Full-auto feature.

one might ask, why? The answer is mere soldiers arent specialized infantry like sniper who can shoot straight and precise. They like the full-auto feature because it can supress enemies, and they cant shoot as good and as straight as a sniper so they rely on spraying and hope it hits something.

You can buy 50 BMG in wallmart

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you can even get HE (Immediate Action Incendiary), AP-T, even Tungsten core if you have the money.

and no, sniper rifle ammo arent always more expensive.

(henki000) #17

@Sorotia

If we insight the gun laws and restrictions. They give you right to own this more deadly and expensive sniper rifle, but automatic assault rifles are banned in most civilized countries for public use. In army, automatic fire is pretty much forbidden or at least restricted to exceptional combat situations and those weapons have typically, when used in service, telescopic sights. That means bolt action or semi-automatic/sustained firing rifles with telescopic sight have better availability and crucial role in warfare. And that should be the case in future dystopia of Dirty Bomb as well. After all, sniper rifles and assault rifles are both just rifles that can be used with scope or not. There is just false association that makes them different.

@GatoCommodore

In the present day war, pretty much everyone have telescopic sight in their rifle, unless you are poor ISIS terrorist. Those peacekeepers and Navy Seals have all scopes in their rifles. I’m pretty sure telescopic sights is universal thing in British mercenarys as well. Sure, those assault rifles have automatic fire, but they are more commonly using semi-automatic fire as sharpshooters.

Sniper rifle ammo isnt always more expensive, but they are commonly using 5.56×45mm NATO bullets in all rifles. Those bullets have huge distribution and low price. But I’m expecting Vasillis MOA to use .50 BMG bullets. That should destroy pretty much anything in distance of 2,5km, now it feels like a airgun pellets. Only way to kill is to shoot that pellet to eye. There should be other critical hitpoints like heart or neck.

(GatoCommodore) #18

@henki000
the current doctrine of warfare is more like whos shooting more lead down range and whose got more boom-boom

the most casuality in the latest war is inflicted by either a shrapnel or ambush

over-penetration is a thing
you can get blown by a 50 BMG and not feel a thing and kept shooting
this happens to a guy in vietnam where a vietcong with mounted DshK shot a guy in the stomach. He was still alive and kept shooting but then he died when he realize he doesnt have a stomach anymore.

also, lets not get into something too realistic.
in dirty bomb were on the realm of something believeable.
if we were making it realistic people would die in one shot

(henki000) #19

@GatoCommodore

I’m not suggesting that Dirty Bomb should be gritty. I think sniper rifles should be slightly better, because people protest and vote kick bad snipers. And the opposite reasoning does not justify snipers balanced existence. Playing with telescopic sights should not be black and white.