Simple Suggestion Regarding Public Play...

(PixelTwitch) #1

Now please understand I am talking about Server Browser games only here…

I would like to see public play remove the lobby between rounds and remove the 3 Merc limit. I would like to see Objective mode allow 2x each Merc per team and have it limited to 1x each Merc per team on Stopwatch mode. Extend the loading screen or warm-up if needed to sync the loadouts. However doing it this way you could pretty much have all loadouts loaded up at once maybe?

If this is the case it should remove the connection stutter (that should not be a problem in match making anyway) and reduce server drop off during lobby screens that we see now. I think overall it is better with very little to actually call a negative…

(xdc) #2

what if i disconnect, lagout, etc and reconnect with a different merc? unallowed to reconnect unless same merc is being used since last played?

for objective mode dont you mean 2x merc for each player and 1 merc for each player in stopwatch? A one or two merc team seems ridiculous

What about seeing what mercs your team chooses to choose the most effecient merc, ex. a team without a medic and you choose a medic

It’s not gonna happen. It goes against the design SD is aiming for. One or two mercs per player is very limiting and would only create more unbalanced games, example I wanna switch to engie to complete the objective faster but im stuck with Vassili and a useless sniper rifle on this area of the map.

and it isnt a fix for connection stutter

(PixelTwitch) #3

[QUOTE=xdc;515897]what if i disconnect and reconnect with a different merc?

for objective mode dont you mean 2x merc for each player and 1 merc for each player in stopwatch?

What about seeing what mercs your team chooses to choose the most effecient merc, ex. a team without a medic and you choose a medic

It’s not gonna happen. It goes against the design SD is aiming for. One or two mercs per player is very limiting and would only create more unbalanced games, example I wanna switch to engie to complete the objective faster but im stuck with Vassili and a useless sniper rifle on this area of the map.

and it isnt a fix for connection stutter[/QUOTE]

No, I mean when you go to the deploy screen you get to select any Merc…
A maximum of 2 of the same Merc per team…

So if you want to be a sniper but there is already 2 snipers on your team you have to pick something else.
However, if one of them 2 snipers change Merc you can take the sniper.

Also, I know its not a fix for the connection stutter, I was just mentioning that it could possibly remove the need to fix it completely as it would no longer be part of the design. (It is believed the stutter is caused by syndicating loadouts and squads but that could be wrong).

(xdc) #4

it seems it would be annoying for rank 1’s who only get 4 mercs. also a team full of stokers, etc should be a strategy/tactic that shouldn’t be removed, i haven’t seen it happen in 8v8 but it would be interesting to see. It seems to only be limiting the diversity of strats/tactics that could be done with mercs on teams

(PixelTwitch) #5

I hope you are taking the piss…
8 Skyhammers vs EV objective is not a strategy… It is outright broken…
Just like 5 Sawbones! Could you even imagine 8 Rhino rush?

The Mercs are not balanced to have multiple of the same Merc, in fact, Its almost impossible to do so…

8 Stokers can literally block a single exit/entrance from spawn indefinitly with double stacked fire and infinite ammo (not that they would need it cause they can do this without becoming visible. I look forward to seeing the 7 Rhino + 1 Aura strat on underground! or the 8 Thunder rush!

By allowing such tactics and strats to exist you actually lower the true number of strats and tactics…
This is because one option will always be flat out better then everything else.
Sure you would have 100x more potential combos but less reason to deviate from a single one.

Hence the talk about Draft mode for Matchmaking.

(xdc) #6

I don’t see it being a big issue, every class has a weakness, 1 great sniper vs 7 rhinos & 1 aura, etc (they also have no heartbeat, which would be a nice advantage in this case ) and 8 skyhammers isnt as great as it sounds against 2 or 3 engies who have the fast repair augment.
If anything the 2 of the same merc per team limit is too little, at the least I would respect 4 (half a team in 8v8).
Plus it would be annoying to never get to play your favorite merc because it is always taken, which would constantly happen at 2, especially when your below level 5 and only have 4 mercs. Also with 1 merc per team would be devastiately annoying, what about the engine that never makes it to the EV because they keep getting killed, etc Most often I notice myself switching to engie to get EV going

ETQW never had this problem even with hyperblasters, rocket launchers, and drones, but then again it had class objectives, i’ve seen whole teams switch over to one class to get the objective done quicker but it was never OP, they would of been better off with a medic and a assault at the front, etc

I think it would only be more of an annoyance than anything

(PixelTwitch) #7

ETQW never had this number of variations to try and balance…

Also, Snipers do not 1 shot head shot a Rhino (part of the reason for making that point).
I do audio logs each day (multiple a day) for my concerns with Dirty Bomb and the multiple Merc one comes up again and again.

I will quickly talk about one really BAD example (this is best case scenario kinda thing to show the effect though out all Mercs)

Phoenix and Sawbones…
Basically do the exact same job just in slightly different ways…
I consider them quite balanced next to each other really and I have no issue with fighting vs a Sawbones and a Phoenix. I would much rather fight them with one of each rather than two of the same. Why would this be? I mean, I just said they are balanced after all… Well, to get to the bottom of that we need to look at what each of them does better than the other.

Sawbones…
He has a constant ability to heal himself.
More of a Medium range Merc in comparison.

Phoenix…
Self revive…
Ability to heal in a radius over time…

If you get into a close range fight with 2x Phoenix you are more likely to lose the fight due to ammo capacity vs 2x potential self revives. Their instant heal also means more health throughout the fight while shooting. Even if you down them both and manage to gib one in the time required, you still have to contest with a self revived Phoenix in most cases. If the fight takes too long you run the risk of them both being back up again. This makes them better at rush attacks than either 2x Sawbones or 1 of each.

If you get a medium range fight vs 2x Sawbones with cover you are really unable to push due to self heal. Any chip you get on them before running in is likely reset on reaching their position. This makes them very good as defence Medics. Also, thats double the number of packs on the ground for the team. This makes them better at this role than 2x Phoenix or one of each.

If you have 1 of each at Medium range with cover, simply focus the Phoenix and get a foothold as you know after he heals the first time you have 10 seconds to act. If there are one of each close range, focus either and gib either to double your chances of not being reversed. They only have half the effective heal or damage at any given time due to sawbones needing to throw down his packs.

The problem is what they do well for as Mercs… Supporting the team… Realistically, all 3 combos work almost identically just with different input from the player. This means it would most of the time make more sense to take 2xPhoenix or 2xSawbones then it would do to take one of each. There is simply more positives to double them up.

Each time you add more of the same Merc their “positive” normally gets stronger than any other combo would allow. (obviously assuming that you have a medic or two and a engineer). Obviously there are tipping points when the benefits start to dwindle .

(RasteRayzeR) #8

Voted no, but I do agree that the lobbies else than the first one are too long. They should simply allow the player to spectate as a dead guy and join the next wave rather than blocking him/her in a sens-less lobby

(PixelTwitch) #9

May I ask why you voted no?
What part in particular did you not like?

(RasteRayzeR) #10

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;515914]May I ask why you voted no?
What part in particular did you not like?[/QUOTE]

Voted no because I want to keep the 3 mercs limit. And by logic, if this is false the whole statement becomes false because tied with an “and”:

T & F => F

(PixelTwitch) #11

[QUOTE=RasteRayzeR;515915]Voted no because I want to keep the 3 mercs limit. And by logic, if this is false the whole statement becomes false because tied with an “and”:

T & F => F[/QUOTE]

Yup, that is fair. I have no real issue with the 3 Merc system apart from how much of a pain it becomes if you was to remove lobbies.

  • I think you have a certain view because you never change Merc.
(RasteRayzeR) #12

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;515916]Yup, that is fair. I have no real issue with the 3 Merc system apart from how much of a pain it becomes if you was to remove lobbies.

  • I think you have a certain view because you never change Merc.[/QUOTE]

I don’t change mercs during a game for sure, I test some combos of mercs over large periods.

(INF3RN0) #13

Voted ‘Don’t Care’. Lobbies don’t make a whole lot of sense atm- maybe under you’re suggested 2merc limit or a draft pick mode. Stacking the same merc was never an issue until this patch, but even then I’d be curious to see how those examples would pan out. I would agree that some buffed abilities make certain mercs much more useful in specific maps or most situations. Still, if map layouts ever improve and the ability meta gets expanded into synergies/counters then I think it would resolve most issues.

(xdc) #14

maybe this is to stop players from disconnect / reconnect with new mercs, which i’ve done before (and would be better with a faster pc).

  • But it could simply deny the player acccess to the server unless they switch back to what they were previously using while in the server (during game, not warmup), or they have to join a different server. Maybe have it saved on the server and make it easy as clicking join (with acknowledgement) to where you get the previous setup

without this the merc loadout choice doesnt make sense especially if XP is regained or the player is level 20, with a ‘fast’ computer disconnect / reconnect with new mercs should take less than 1 minute

with this they could remove the spawn timer before joining the game from lobby after a map has loaded (annoying even with cvar at 1)

(prophett) #15

Don’t care either way as long as I can still use skyhammer 100% of the time :confused:

(tokamak) #16

I would like to see a 1 merc limit.

Limiting mercs per team is nonsense. It’s meddlesome. It’s telling people what the right team composition should be and forcing them to play that way.

If you get into a close range fight with 2x Phoenix you are more likely to lose the fight

As it should be. Same goes for any other 2x merc vs you.

(PixelTwitch) #17

I disagree completely…

Not limiting in the Mercs actually gives less valid combos.
Plus let’s not forget that Matchmaking could well be Draft mode.

This is more about lowering the server browser lobby time, frustrations of people coming and going and raised player numbers.

(Violator) #18

Remove 3-merc limit - yes
Remove lobby business - yes
2x merc per team - no

So wasn’t sure how to vote :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #19

And who are you to decide what’s valid and what isn’t?

(PixelTwitch) #20

[QUOTE=Violator;515960]Remove 3-merc limit - yes
Remove lobby business - yes
2x merc per team - no

So wasn’t sure how to vote :)[/QUOTE]

I am afraid you would also be a no vote then :frowning:

i feel very strongly about limiting the number of duplicate Mercs on a team but I do understand those that don’t want to :slight_smile: