Simple Side Obj Suggestions for Current Maps

(INF3RN0) #1

Part 1: Waterloo Terminus

Here are some extremely simple low cost side objectives that can easily/should be added to the “finished maps”. If there is absolutely no way to adapt any of these to the current maps, I would appreciate some insight.

Why should these be made into side objectives? The answer is map flow. If these were to become contestable side objectives, the forward spawn and the current side routes would become more than just a “one time gimmick”. Defense would be able to attempt forward defenses more often if they were able to narrow the choke points temporarily, and thus full dynamic utilization of the entire map section would be highly realistic.

Obj 1

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The overpass bridge is a constructable side objective for offense.

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The bridge can be temporarily disabled by a c4 plant from a soldier on defense.

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The contamination tunnel can be reactivated by a c4 plant from a soldier. Or maybe engineer?

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Map flow choke points when alt routes are disabled versus the obj zone.

(INF3RN0) #2

Obj 3

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Contamination zone reactivated from C4 plant. Or maybe engineer?

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Door drop down, global side obj, activates for temporary time via recon hack. Attractive for offensive back rage or retaking obj zone by defense.

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Door to balcony, global side obj, activates for temp time via recon hack.

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Balcony shown here. Mainly attractive for defensive back raging on terminal obj or offensive height advantage on 3rd obj.


Map area chokes with disabled side obj routes.

(INF3RN0) #3

It’s also possible to have all of the decontamination side objectives be done by the engineer class on both offense and defense so as not to give the soldier all of the side obj attention.

(Kendle) #4

Initial thoughts:-

Obj 1 overpass is not viable, attack will always be able to build it, and defence will never be able to destroy it. It’ll just slow down the attackers, one time only, for no reason.

Obj 1 tunnel contamination re-activation might be useful but I doubt defence would ever attempt it. Committing players to defend a C4 plant in the tunnel opens them up to being flanked. It’s much easier to defend from the top of the stairs as that area doubles as the defensive point for players coming across the overpass, and triples as a defensive point for the forward spawn capture area.

Obj 3 tunnel can already be re-contaminated by destroying the pump on the other side.

Obj 3 drop-down, not entirely sure where that is ??

Obj 3 balcony, defence don’t need any help at this stage, being able to back-rape attackers from there only draws out an already meat-grinder-ish objective.

Waterloo is the only map that already has decent side objectives, it’s all the others that need this kind of attention. :slight_smile:

(Kendle) #5

Just so as to not be too negative however I think the problem with most of these suggestions is the time it takes to build and destroy things. Both take too long compared to spawn times and travel distances and are therefore just not worth it most of the time.

All of these suggestions would however become potentially viable if building side objective constructibles took half the time they currently do, and there was something equivalent to the ET Covert’s Satchel Charge, for quickly and easily destroying them.

(INF3RN0) #6

The problem is that spawn times are so short you can never capitalize on successfully wiping out the enemy team on defense. The thoughts here relate to being able to retake ground during a match.

Example: Wipe first attack, close off alt routes if time permits, maintain a forward defense. If the forward is lost, then you have incentive to retake it and again try to push out. Being able to have contestable side objectives like this is dependent on the timing, where you should be able to complete them on defense within 1/2-3/4 of the offensive spawn timer.

On offense it’s always best to open these routes, and it should be biased towards them- but it should be a continual focus.

To readdress

1- spawn time dependent. Offense has way too many direct access points on this obj. If it was possible to contest some of these it would be a game changer for map flow.

2- Risk should be involved for attempting to close off an extra access route.

3-That location is unrealistic for defense. It needs to be inside the tunnel to be plausible.

4-It’s where the old drop down route was located, long hallway on the edge of the map.

5-This offers a realistic sniping position for offense on the plant objectives. There’s already more reasonable back raging routes for defense anyway, so it wouldn’t really change that.

(Kendle) #7

  1. The overpass is too close to attacker spawn to be contestable, certainly if it involves planting C4 (and defending the plant).

  2. True, but the risk is too great, it’s just way way easier, and much more desirable, to hold a central area that enables you to defend almost all routes. It might help if the exit for the tunnel were somewhere else.

  3. No it’s not.

  4. Ah, of course, not sure why they closed it off tbh, but then not sure it’s worth any effort opening it up either.

  5. OK, hadn’t thought of that, in which case you get a thumbs up!

(INF3RN0) #8

[QUOTE=Kendle;451656]1. The overpass is too close to attacker spawn to be contestable, certainly if it involves planting C4 (and defending the plant).

  1. True, but the risk is too great, it’s just way way easier, and much more desirable, to hold a central area that enables you to defend almost all routes. It might help if the exit for the tunnel were somewhere else.

  2. No it’s not.

  3. Ah, of course, not sure why they closed it off tbh, but then not sure it’s worth any effort opening it up either.

  4. OK, hadn’t thought of that, in which case you get a thumbs up![/QUOTE]

-If you manage to get a plant on overpass you can easily defend it from the balcony or the MG nest/area. I’ve been able to cross that overpass on defense many times uncontested and definitely think it is doable. Longer spawns would make it more realistic though.

-The defensive plant would be in the tunnel. The whole point there is that at least you can close it off again if you send an engy/soldier into the tunnel. You don’t have to, but at least if you do your narrowing down the need to spread out the entire time.

-How many times do you see people blow it up? Never happens, and it won’t in comp either so that goes to show. All decontamination side objs are fine having the build on the offensive side, but defense need to have their plant-able side in the tunnel itself if you ever want to see it be contested.

A lot of this is mainly from the first days of alpha and competitive play testing. When your playing to win your going to try and hold the first wave, and then your never going to see that part of the map again.

(Kendle) #9

I used to routinely blow up the pump, never really had a problem doing so, but lately no-one seems to bother opening the tunnel, so I have to admit I haven’t done it in a while.

(rookie1) #10

[QUOTE=Kendle;451648]Initial thoughts:-

Obj 1 overpass is not viable, attack will always be able to build it, and defence will never be able to destroy it. It’ll just slow down the attackers, one time only, for no reason.

[/QUOTE]
don’t have time to analize them all right now but I agreed with Kendle for the first one.
Would like better in this map more side obje near the main objectives…eg. like if where the 2 walls are if there was a door on the left side to go to the center of the 2 walls that can be c4 or close

(ImageOmega) #11

I think that whole tunnel/vapor room is awful as a shortcut. There’s no advantage going that way besides it being an alternate route. First off you are coming up stairs so if defense is set up at the exit then they have elevation on you and just have to wait for you to round the corner. Secondly, that corner leading to the exit into the bomb room is tight so it is easily grenaded. Finally it pours out into the middle of a giant box with little to no cover. It has no advantage in pushing towards the PDA so the only time it is effective is trying to sneak through to get a plant off AFTER the PDA has been activated. As attackers you are walking into a death trap and able to be fired upon from all directions including PDA mg nest.

It just makes more sense to go all the way past that tunnel entrance to the far escalator that can get you elevation to cross to PDA side or stay low or jump down for c4 plant. It even makes more sense to goto the left escalators even if you’re going to plant because it is faster as you have direct sight coming in and better coverage and route options.

Finally, the pump itself to clear that tunnel/vapor room is way out of position. It should be closer to where defense passes that tall wall right before you hit the tunnels. Every time I see an engy is activating that pump I think that his time would have been better spent pushing up to the right to attack with the team since he is already passed the tunnels. Why do you have to backtrack?

EDIT: referring to second vapor room/tunnel on Waterloo.

(INF3RN0) #12

Also one thing to note is that something as simple as pushing the O spawn on the 1st obj into that area directly to the left of the current spawn area would allow for that overpass to be much easier to be planted as well- since you wouldn’t have people spawning right into its LOS. Side objs don’t always need to be faster routes, but just extra routes. Opening them effectively spreads the defense out more. Being able to contest them allows the defense to push up more. Thus a dynamic battle for map control, which is completely non existent at the moment.

With current maps the best means of actually proposing a realistic change for the devs due to the maps being unable to be heavily altered would be to take existing routes and turn them into contestable routes. In my opinion stuff like that would be much better than without them entirely. If anyone can think of other ideas that fit these simple parameters I would love to see them. I consider these ideas extremely light in comparison to the threads on extreme map changes.