Should Javelin have to work/press a key to give ammo?

(KayDubz) #1

Simple question. I personally feel that even after Jav’s nerf to how much ammo she gives…I hate the idea that she automatically gives out ammo.

Its like playing fire support with kid gloves. It takes no amount of coordination with your team or effort on the part of the Javelin player. She’s already the only fire support merc that can reliably kill groups of people indoors and at choke points rather quickly. Maybe a very good Stoker can time his ability well…but its rare for molotovs to get multikills indoors.

My thing is, if she already has a very good primary ability…why shouldn’t she have to work to give ammo like everyone else does? If every other fire support merc has to remember to constantly drop ammo packs and stations for their teammates, why shouldn’t javelin?

Why give her an ability sort of like Pheonix…but automatic? Pheonix healing pulse isn’t an auto heal…now is it?

** And what other merc in the game has a passive ability that takes not a single Keyboard press to do? Serious question.
**

(BerylRdm) #2

Quick E to instantly give ammo wouldn’t hurt anyone. I think this is weird to have merc with passive support ability.

Also, I don’t like this circle they gave her to show ability radius. This is annoying.

(KayDubz) #3

@BerylRdm said:
Quick E to instantly give ammo wouldn’t hurt anyone. I think this is weird to have merc with passive support ability.

Also, I don’t like this circle they gave her to show ability radius. This is annoying.

I really don’t understand it. Shes literally the only merc with an ability that doesn’t require a keypress.

Can someone correct me if I’m wrong? I personally don’t feel its good to make her have an auto ability when she has a really good primary ability, good gun, and good health pool already.

Its unfair to users of other fire mercs as well, who’s ammo can be stolen by enemies or have stations destroyed. Jav just gets easy auto ammo XP simply because she exists.

(Terminal_6) #4

She’s the only FS merc that doesn’t have to know she’s an FS to do her job. Handy in pubs but it promotes thoughtless gameplay and isn’t really consistent with the game.

(Melinder) #5

I don’t like the fact that she promotes having the team all up in her grill for up to 12 seconds to get ammo. Team collision is a big pain in the butt, and will prove to be an issue when she is available in Ranked play.

I also dislike how her Ammo Aura offers less flexibility in terms of positioning than the other Ammo abilities. Ammo Packs can be thrown large distances, and don’t require players to leave their positions for too long in order to replenish. Ammo Stations are similar, as they can be placed in an ideal position for the entire team, resulting in minimal travel time to receive ammo. Javelin, however, requires the team to be wherever she is, which won’t always be in a safe position.

This pretty much sums up my issue with Javelin

P5gs2SI.png1279x531

Oh, for those who don’t know, the Ammo Aura takes 2 minutes and 24 seconds to fully replenish Javelin. Let that sink in.

#6

@Melinder said:
I don’t like the fact that she promotes having the team all up in her grill for up to 12 seconds to get ammo. Team collision is a big pain in the butt, and will prove to be an issue when she is available in Ranked play.

I also dislike how her Ammo Aura offers less flexibility in terms of positioning than the other Ammo abilities. Ammo Packs can be thrown large distances, and don’t require players to leave their positions for too long in order to replenish. Ammo Stations are similar, as they can be placed in an ideal position for the entire team, resulting in minimal travel time to receive ammo. Javelin, however, requires the team to be wherever she is, which won’t always be in a safe position.

This pretty much sums up my issue with Javelin

P5gs2SI.png1279x531

Oh, for those who don’t know, the Ammo Aura takes 2 minutes and 24 seconds to fully replenish Javelin. Let that sink in.

I agree to an extent and this is probably something your team should be mindful of, but I think she’s in a good place now. I’m completely fine with the changes and I think the ammo rate is perfect; she feels very balanced overall to me. Yes, some other supports and medics have a bit more range, but Aura, Sawbones, and Phoenix are practically hugging their teammates the entire game, regardless. It’s a risk and I’m glad that it was changed enough that Javelin will no longer be the go-to fire support for ammo. I see her as an assault focused support in the same way that Stoker is utilized.

(K1X455) #7

@Melinder said:

Oh, for those who don’t know, the Ammo Aura takes 2 minutes and 24 seconds to fully replenish Javelin. Let that sink in.

If only she could make voluntary ammo delivery instead of relying on passive ability, the ammo she could pass need not be diminished by 66%. This in turn will make a conscientious effort on the player to perform fire support.

(Sorotia) #8

Trouble is wouldn’t that just make her just like Arty or Skyhammer just easier?

Right now her ammo ability is in a much more fair spot without being just the same as others.

(Melinder) #9

@Sorotia said:
Right now her ammo ability is in a much more fair spot without being just the same as others.

I honestly struggle to understand how you can think that. In a simple 1:1 ammo exchange, what Skyhammer/Arty can do in 0.5 seconds, and Kira/Stoker can do in 4 seconds, Javelin takes 12 seconds (that being fully resupplying ammo).

There are other things to think about too, for example Pack/Station Fire Supports allow a player to instantly reload an entire mag upon receiving ammo, whereas Javelin will only allow them to reload an average of 10-20 bullets.

I think people are settling because her rocket is still on the other side of the balance spectrum.

(Sorotia) #10

@Melinder said:

@Sorotia said:
Right now her ammo ability is in a much more fair spot without being just the same as others.

I honestly struggle to understand how you can think that. In a simple 1:1 ammo exchange, what Skyhammer/Arty can do in 0.5 seconds, and Kira/Stoker can do in 4 seconds, Javelin takes 12 seconds (that being fully resupplying ammo).

There are other things to think about too, for example Pack/Station Fire Supports allow a player to instantly reload an entire mag upon receiving ammo, whereas Javelin will only allow them to reload an average of 10-20 bullets.

I think people are settling because her rocket is still on the other side of the balance spectrum.

I said it was in a more fair spot, I didn’t say it was perfect, it was way WAY to OP in the former spot.

This is exactly what I and other were worried about, over nerfing…thankfully they didn’t make her rocket launcher useless.

On that note she is perhaps the strongest fire support, it’s fare that she is the weakest ammo giver, but on that yes, her ammo ability is a bit to weak.

(Your worst knifemare.) #11

Make it work similar to Pheonix’s pulse for cooldown and amount of ammo given. More you hold down the key, the more ammo is given.

#12

@Melinder said:

I honestly struggle to understand how you can think that. In a simple 1:1 ammo exchange, what Skyhammer/Arty can do in 0.5 seconds, and Kira/Stoker can do in 4 seconds, Javelin takes 12 seconds (that being fully resupplying ammo).

There are other things to think about too, for example Pack/Station Fire Supports allow a player to instantly reload an entire mag upon receiving ammo, whereas Javelin will only allow them to reload an average of 10-20 bullets.

I think people are settling because her rocket is still on the other side of the balance spectrum.

I think the way you’re looking at this is too linear. Why would you use their rates as a baseline for what she should have? She isn’t the same merc or the same type of support, but you’re right about the last bit. Because she is more of an assault focused fire support and the launcher is so powerful, many people view her current ammo ability as balanced. I don’t think the rates need to be changed, but I won’t be upset if they add some kind of keydown function. I just don’t think it’s necessary.

@Lord_Coctus and the OP (and a million others) have a good suggestion akin to the Phoenix pulse if it were to be changed, but I’d hope the cooldown is nowhere near as short as the pulse or the standard ammo packs if they do add something like that. Keydown or passive is irrelevant to me as long as she isn’t returned to a state where she outclasses all of the other ammo supports in most situations. The ammo was stupidly broken before this patch and hands down the biggest issue with her.

(Homu1124) #13

While people consider that pressing a key is work, I think that the fact that she has to be really close to allies to give ammo is work enough now. She has to be close, and close for a while, meaning that she has to choose whether to push or to wait back and give ammo. Ammo bag and ammo station abilities allow those mercs to place and forget as well as give ammo to others. Jav, so far, can’t refill her own ammo (which I think is a bug).

(Press E) #14

@Homu1124 said:
While people consider that pressing a key is work, I think that the fact that she has to be really close to allies to give ammo is work enough now. She has to be close, and close for a while, meaning that she has to choose whether to push or to wait back and give ammo. Ammo bag and ammo station abilities allow those mercs to place and forget as well as give ammo to others. Jav, so far, can’t refill her own ammo (which I think is a bug).

But that just means you constantly have people crowding around you. I mean sure, noobs run away, but mid level players love to just crowd around every javelin they see.

I haven’t seen one javelin player play her to give out ammo to her team either.

(AlbinMatt) #15

I really do believe that her ammo belt should be limited, say it can replenish up to 400% of a weapon’s total reserves, and she has to walk up to an Ammo Crate to refill her Ammo Belt.

Aside from that, an “ammo pulse” still seems unfair for the other supports. Perhaps she could press “E” to pull out an ammo string off her belt, and connect it to someone (max 2 mercs?), and they’ll have both primary and secondary weapons replenished in say 25% less time than Ammo Stations.

I would also propose a buff for Ammo Packs so they shave off more time from cooldowns. This way, pArty and Skyhaggis are dedicated cooldown knockers that can help Nader or Fragger with heavy ordinance, Javelin can keep her teammates in the fight and well supplied, as well as providing a salvo of rockets, and anyone hulled up, choked, or are in a good vantage point can rely on the stations (which I also think should be limited, perhaps up to 1000% percent of weapons for longer durations).

(Reddeadcap) #16

How about her pressing E at a distance to lock an ammo belt from her pack to a teammate?