Shotgun spread too tight ?

(Eox) #1

Hello everyone.

So… I don’t know how to start that feedback. I am a TF2, Xonotic and Warframe player that decided to give a shot at Dirty Bomb : it began two weeks ago with the first “open beta session” on steam, and now I am back for the second one. As a player who really loves fast paced games with good movement mechanics, my natural choice was to pick Proxy. So I intensively played her all along the first closed beta week end.

During my playthough, I kept noticing that sometimes my seemingly more or less accurate base shotgun shots missed targets. My first though was that I really lacked of luck (I am not the very lucky kind of player), so the player in front of me managed to end without damages by passing between two shots or something like that. I am now back, and back on Proxy again… And right now I discovered why I missed shots that I wouldn’t miss in other games : the shotgun spread is actually, or seems, really tight ! I discovered it while trying to shoot a player from afar. I managed to damage for more than half of his health a skyhammer player from pretty far away (or at least too far for a consistent shotgun buckshot in TF2 or Xonotic). I am also pretty sure that I didn’t hit the head.

This kinda raises me a lot of question ! With her shotgun (powerful close range weapon), the best speed in the game and low hp, Proxy is supposedly best used to ambush or flank players (as well as playing objectives). Such a tight spread on Proxy’s shotgun seems kinda counter-intuitive and not logical (if that spread is really that tight). However, because of how powerful are automatic weapons, it seems archknowledgeable since those are able to kill you from way farther. This is why I don’t know if I should suggest to increase shotguns spread.

Increasing shotgun’s spread would make easier to hit with them, but it would also decrease the shotgun’s effectiveness at higher ranges. In that game were machine guns and smgs seems to be the way to go choice for most of players, I am not sure about what I should suggest. Especially since Proxy’s base secondary seems really weak to me, but that’s another story.

(Nail) #2

sorry, I found the spread very realistic

(Eox) #3

Realism is not the problem.

(Szakalot) #4

probably the best way to go is to increase damage falloff? Anything past close-range and shotgun barely does any effective damage?

(Eox) #5

I really don’t know. I don’t really want to nerf shotguns actually, I just wonder if they should be tweaked. Damage falloff (or at least increasing it) would be a straight nerf. There’s actually some perks about a less tight spread as I explained in the first post.

I’m just sure about one thing. Shotguns does not seem overpowered to me. I actually didn’t found any weapon that was really breaking the game in my opinion. But the actual shotgun’s spread may have some logical flaws due to how shotgun wielding characters are supposed to play. It’s very, very debatable though., because that tight spread may be needed.

However I didn’t noticed any real falloff mechanic while I was playing. Maybe I didn’t paid attention too much. Can someone confirm it ?

(B_Montiel) #6

There is damage fall off. It’s very noticeable with sniper body shot or long range fight with assault rifle.

To me, shotgun have a very well rounded gameplay. Surely the best weapons in less than 10m fights, but somehow skill demanding to be efficient. I don’t think giving higher spread would give them any improvement to them, since more pellets will miss the target and therefore reduce the damage per shot. One shotting light to middle enemies with them is imo still necessary to make shotguns viable.

I think it needs to be confirmed, but I do think aura’s shotgun has a way higher spread than the proxy’s one. And the third (which is not available in this beta) has an even lower than proxy’s.

(Szakalot) #7

Aura’s shotgun has higher spread for sure, but feels like it deals more damage per shot

(triteCherry) #8

Maybe I have an uncommon opinion regarding shotguns. I play Sawbonez pretty much a large portion of play unless the occasion calls for a different merc or there is too many healers but I feel his weapons are vastly overshadowed by Aura and Proxy’s shotguns.

Pretty much all of Sawbonez’ weapons are sustain type while the shotgun is burst type allowing shotgun users a safer play style by allowing them to do large chunks of damage and pop behind cover. The range problems the shotgun has is pretty much lowered by Proxy’s speed and Aura’s defense capabilities. For Sawbonez against a shotgun user generally needs to hit them in the head about 5-6 times and it seems that the shotgun needs to land much less.

It would be less of a problem if the game had more open space but all the maps have such a large amount of cover it makes wielding a shotgun pretty safe.

(irishrOy) #9

[quote=“triteCherry;6039”]

It would be less of a problem if the game had more open space but all the maps have such a large amount of cover it makes wielding a shotgun pretty safe.[/quote]

and bc. maps are “poorly” designed, shotguns should be nerfed?

TBH, I don’t think “all” maps are bad for shotguns bc. of cover.
Having a lot of cover is actually a core-element for certain maps, I think.
But for example the maps Chapel and Trainyard don’t have that much corners/cover. The core-tunnel and way to attack/defend is pretty “broad” you could say.

But I see your point, popping in and out of cover, only giving off 1 shot plays pretty safe.
But Vassili makes that dangerous, bc. he can hardscope your cover and one-hit-kill you easily.

I personally think Shotguns in DB are pretty balanced and powerful.
Not gamebreaking, but good.

(Eox) #10

[quote=“triteCherry;6039”]
Maybe I have an uncommon opinion regarding shotguns. I play Sawbonez pretty much a large portion of play unless the occasion calls for a different merc or there is too many healers but I feel his weapons are vastly overshadowed by Aura and Proxy’s shotguns.

Pretty much all of Sawbonez’ weapons are sustain type while the shotgun is burst type allowing shotgun users a safer play style by allowing them to do large chunks of damage and pop behind cover. The range problems the shotgun has is pretty much lowered by Proxy’s speed and Aura’s defense capabilities. For Sawbonez against a shotgun user generally needs to hit them in the head about 5-6 times and it seems that the shotgun needs to land much less.

It would be less of a problem if the game had more open space but all the maps have such a large amount of cover it makes wielding a shotgun pretty safe.[/quote]

That’s something I can understand.

However, as a Proxy player I have a very bad time when I play on maps that does not have a lot of cover, like Chapel. Curiously I don’t have that much hard times when I play on Trainyard which is also a kinda open map, but that’s maybe because I have a good feeling about that map. I tend to be kinda easly destroyed by all kind of rapid fire weapons also, more than shotguns. Oftenly it only needs a small burst from one guy to down me.

You feel like shotguns are destroying you, but I really feel like all kind of SMG things that is not Proxy’s base secondary destroys me. I guess that’s means that the game is somewhat balanced when I think about. Also, if I remember well, I also noticed as Sawbones, who is for me my secondary character, that shotguns were really mean to me. Maybe it’s a defined weakness for that character.

(triteCherry) #11

[quote=“Eox;6058”]
That’s something I can understand.

However, as a Proxy player I have a very bad time when I play on maps that does not have a lot of cover, like Chapel. Curiously I don’t have that much hard times when I play on Trainyard which is also a kinda open map, but that’s maybe because I have a good feeling about that map. I tend to be kinda easly destroyed by all kind of rapid fire weapons also, more than shotguns. Oftenly it only needs a small burst from one guy to down me.

You feel like shotguns are destroying you, but I really feel like all kind of SMG things that is not Proxy’s base secondary destroys me. I guess that’s means that the game is somewhat balanced when I think about. Also, if I remember well, I also noticed as Sawbones, who is for me my secondary character, that shotguns were really mean to me. Maybe it’s a defined weakness for that character.[/quote]

I haven’t unlocked Proxy yet (last one) but I started using Aura for about seven matches and the shotgun alone made attacking and defense so much more easier then Sawbonez against pretty much every other type of merc (this is without the healing station). I was in situations where I could take 2-3 people that would be near impossible with Sawbonez (also without healing station). If they ever gave Sawbonez a shotgun I don’t think I would ever go back to SMGs. After playing Aura the shotgun definitely feels easier to use and gets better results over a shorter time then Sawbonez’ SMGs.

I can’t comment on the playstyle of Proxy unless I play her but being on the opposite end I see a lot of Shotgun Proxy. It’s really rare to see SMG Proxy, from what I’ve seen.

(Eox) #12

[quote=“triteCherry;6069”][quote=“Eox;6058”]
That’s something I can understand.

However, as a Proxy player I have a very bad time when I play on maps that does not have a lot of cover, like Chapel. Curiously I don’t have that much hard times when I play on Trainyard which is also a kinda open map, but that’s maybe because I have a good feeling about that map. I tend to be kinda easly destroyed by all kind of rapid fire weapons also, more than shotguns. Oftenly it only needs a small burst from one guy to down me.

You feel like shotguns are destroying you, but I really feel like all kind of SMG things that is not Proxy’s base secondary destroys me. I guess that’s means that the game is somewhat balanced when I think about. Also, if I remember well, I also noticed as Sawbones, who is for me my secondary character, that shotguns were really mean to me. Maybe it’s a defined weakness for that character.[/quote]

I haven’t unlocked Proxy yet (last one) but I started using Aura for about seven matches and the shotgun alone made attacking and defense so much more easier then Sawbonez against pretty much every other type of merc (this is without the healing station). I was in situations where I could take 2-3 people that would be near impossible with Sawbonez (also without healing station). If they ever gave Sawbonez a shotgun I don’t think I would ever go back to SMGs. After playing Aura the shotgun definitely feels easier to use and gets better results over a shorter time then Sawbonez’ SMGs.

I can’t comment on the playstyle of Proxy unless I play her but being on the opposite end I see a lot of Shotgun Proxy. It’s really rare to see SMG Proxy, from what I’ve seen.
[/quote]

Well, it’s logical if you see less SMG proxies, because you have to unlock a card first. :confused: But trust me, they are able to kick asses as well. And they can drive you really crasy.

Maybe it’s because you have a way better feeling of shotgun weapons. It happens sometimes : you find out that you are incredibly good with something (or at least better than usual) and you don’t know why. Or maybe it’s indeed Aura shotgun’s that is too powerful : she does not use the same than the base loadout card Proxy, so it may explain a lot. But overall, I feel like Aura is not that well balanced. Just my two cent though. It can also be due to Sawbonez’s weapon being not good at all (still a possibility).

I guess some tests have to be made on all weapons in order to check out the damage per shot, the DPS, and everything like that. I hope non-competitive matchmaking will be back tomorrow so I’ll grab a friend and test everything.

(artfulSedan) #13

just a heads up: shotguns have tight spread in rl too. Not an argument just so you know.

and the proxy smg is good °u°

(cosmopolitanSponge) #14

ehhhh, shotties to the weak people that can use them makes sense, you don’t see bonesaw around with a shotty now do you? :stuck_out_tongue:

(TheDubby) #15

Being a semi-pro tf2 player, I found shot guns to e a little bit to strong. When i got the Arua shotty on proxxy, i felt really guilty for using it. I felt like they were a bit to strong. I could over extend and end up face to face with a beefy merc, and i would win the fight every time. This does stem from the fact that i was close, but there was no counter play to it. Even at med. range the shotty is still an option to poke at players. If i hit full meat shots, it was always to meat shots to kill for any merc. Even in a med range fight, i still feel like i have the advantage. I dont really know how to balance it without making it useless or really reducing it’s TTK with a slower pump, or a big spread.

(B_Montiel) #16

Aura’s shotgun has a very wide spread already. It is indeed deadly on very close range while it is less useful than proxy’s further away. Don’t forget also that it is the worst weapon of the game in terms of ammo (on par with strongest snipers with only 5 cartridges in the gun as well as a ridiculous ammo pool). But maybe a slight balance tweak between those two sounds necessary.

(TheDubby) #17

Ive never found ammo to be the problem. Shotguns still feel to me just a bit to strong with not a lot of counter play. and not being punished for over extending when you have a shotgun seems a bit unfair.

(sinKrin) #18

I’ve not tried Proxy but the experience I had with Aura was that her shotgun being pretty balanced. I could wreak havoc up close but encounters at mid-far usually ended in me running away or respawning. The low ammo was also a factor and made me rely on the sidearm more. A game design choice I actually quite enjoyed.