Shooting sequence / damage output

[Armedmanus]

Hey guys,

So I made a discovery today while playing against Domm, and figured I’d share it and see if others have noticed the same thing.

I know there are some players that adjust there shooting sequence (who shoots first, second, third…) to find out how to get the most dmg output. I do it sometimes if I’m trying to finish a unit and it only has a couple of hp left, and it usually works well.

So after a bit of testing, I realized that the damage output based on the position your units shoot in, are already pre-determind at from the start of your turn.

For example:

• I had a sniper that showed he will shoot 103. I shoot and he actually only shoots 101dmg.
• I undo the shot, I move my captain up and take a shot with him first, then shoot with my sniper again and he still shoots 101dmg.
• I undo the sniper shot again, I shoot with my captain a second time and then with my sniper and this time he shoots 104dmg!
• Now what I realized after trying several more combinations was that my sniper will always shoot 104dmg when he shoots the 3rd shot.

So this means, what ever sequence of shooting I choose, I should always keep my snipers shot in 3rd place. Or if I have a unit with smg that crits 3-4 times going 2nd, I should always have him shoot second.

Make sense?
You can test it and see if I’m right

Armed

[Jerry-Rigs]

I have noticed similar sequences over time.

You can start a turn, abort it, and restart it. If you do the same actions on the second attempt as the first, the results (damage) will be the same.
However in a different game the first shoot does different damage than the first shot by the same toon & weapon at the same range (I think).
These observations suggest that there is some randomness involved but it is repeatable. I think that there is a sequence of random numbers associated with each turn. Each shot taken burns one random number off the sequence and the random number determines the final little amount of damage of the shoot taken to give the variations we have all seen. It seems that different weapons have different amounts of random damage possible.

In computers there is no such thing as random, there is only pseudo-random. It looks random but that’s only because you don’t know how the generator algorithm works. All pseudo-random number generators start with a seed value.Given the same starting seed, you will always get the same (pseudo-random) sequence.

How does that apply to the game? I’m making this up based on one of many possible implementations. The devs would have a goal to reduce the amount of data sent with a turn. Although there is a knowable limit to the number of actions in a turn, that number will vary with the toon and weapon mix and what the player does, so the devs have to account for an “unlimited” number of actions in a turn. I suspect that every game turn has a seed value sent with it and every shot (bullet actually) takes the next pseudo-random number from the sequence.

Another internal factor that I think contributes to the damage per shot is an internal rounding error associated with range. Every weapon has range based damage bands. At a give range, a shot does a given amount of damage. +/- a small random amount, and modified by cover and drugs.

I think all the range math in the game is calculated based on the square center to square center distance of the game grid using SQRT(xx + yy). That method is easy to code. When players calculate ranges manually, we “walk the squares” which effectively truncates ranges. That method is more involved to code but easier for players to calculate. The difference between the two methods would explain some some the oddities in damage done from this square vs that square at the same (walk the squares) range.

Of course, I could be wrong.

[g00n]

This part of the game seriously makes you use replay button too much (scares me how much I use it to rid shoestring lives of toons!) as you try to get best combination.Though fun, I find it really takes away your first instincts and can give you insights which change game dramatically. Imagine a game without it I think there be times we will do silly things or wrong combinations but it will be closer to true competition of skill. I hope devs would make optional like chatting when challenging players-use more in competitions?

[digibob]

I think all the range math in the game is calculated based on the square center to square center distance of the game grid using SQRT(xx + yy). That method is easy to code. When players calculate ranges manually, we “walk the squares” which effectively truncates ranges. That method is more involved to code but easier for players to calculate. The difference between the two methods would explain some some the oddities in damage done from this square vs that square at the same (walk the squares) range.

All range in the game is in fact tile based!

Which is simply:
abs( x2 - x1 ) + abs( y2 - y1 )

[Jerry-Rigs]

[QUOTE=digibob;496848]All range in the game is in fact tile based!

Which is simply:
abs( x2 - x1 ) + abs( y2 - y1 )[/QUOTE]

@digibob
Oh duh! I’m am idiot.
Big thanks for contributing!
Any comment about how damage is calculated? How is shot 1 different than shot 2?

[digibob]

[QUOTE=Jerry-Rigs;496879]
Any comment about how damage is calculated? How is shot 1 different than shot 2?[/QUOTE]

What you said about using an RNG sequence is close enough that I won’t go into much more detail. The sequence is however advanced for more than just shooting, but I’ll leave that as an exercise to the reader to figure out what else uses it

[Jerry-Rigs]

What you said about using an RNG sequence is close enough that I won’t go into much more detail. The sequence is however advanced for more than just shooting, but I’ll leave that as an exercise to the reader to figure out what else uses it

A challenge issued? OK, I’ll take a stab.
I think that basically everything that produces damage uses the sequence. Exceptions would be the “fixed” damage amounts for DoT (Toxic bomb, fire bomb, etc) but the initial damage delivered by those attacks does use the sequence.
Arty, mines, grenade, O-Strike, stun, initial toxic burst, initial bee bomb burst, C4, UAV burst and all other bomb like things use the sequence
Movement doesn’t seem to have any effect on the sequence.
Ghosting - not on sequence
Healing - not on sequence
deploying a crate, uav, other engineers toys - haven’t noticed but don’t think so.
The sequence seems to be universal for one move. That is, different toons all share the same sequence. I would expect that the is seeded or otherwise established at the start and runs for the entire game. I would expect that there is only one sequence for both side for the entire game and it advances continuously meaning that the next player picks up where the last player left off. but I can imagine that the sequence is repeated for both sides for “fairness”.
I used to wonder if there was a first shot bonus or a shoot before any movement bonus but there doesn’t seem to be.

Do I get graded?