Serversided Weapon or Merc Lock?

(pulley) #1

Hi folks,

as i see, things are going more to the casual public player style. SD has to do something to make us happy as they have promised!

First, this is no bad thing. If the community likes the game and it will generate a big fanbase, thats a good thing for us. We need many casual gamers and only a few competitive gamers.

So my suggestion is to add a Serverside Weapon or Merc Lock. What do you think about that?

It could be used to set a max ammo amount. 3 Full clips for a medic a way to much atm and its not a good thing for the team play.

No one need sticky bombs or the ability to build up MG Nests.

And the new Tier System is just a joke for us. The loosing team will always have such a great disadvantage. They will never be able to come back in game!

(Bangtastic) #2

I can understand your worries.
But as it is shown in the video, it can easily fit to the comp play style, its just another art to play comp than we are used to be. You will have still abilities to counter the ones you mentioned, players will find ways to handle it. The tier system is the most important part of the game, for me its pretty much the main reason why i want to play this game, because it is so different to a conventional shooter. Otherwise i would pre purchase bf4 now, in the hope it will be more for comp^^

Still there can be rulesets, different iterations, as “Highlander” , certain objects are not allowed. I dont see there a big problem, the comp scene can always shape the game with its own rules to a certain point they want it to be.

Lets have a look first, maybe when its implemented in our versions then its time to talk about. Only real issue to solve as always is balancing.

(pulley) #3

Sure it can easily fit in comp style. Just like brink… and that game died very fast…

It has to be a competitive game right at the beginning! And this way it will surly be not!

The tier system is very nice for public but not for us! Its big bull****!

All of us want a game with clear Aim and high level tactics. Everything else will make the game die as fast as brink…

I think BF is a great game. Never had us much fun on a public server before with other games. But the comp part of the game died very fast…

(Anti) #4

Our big concern with radically different rules for comp and public play, be they changes we set or you folks set via server rules, is that they separate the comp community from the pub community by a long way, helping neither grow.

All of the strongest eSports communities out there right now play their game in competition in a very similar way to how the whole player base plays (games like LoL, HoN, SC2, CS etc). This makes comp play instantly more accessible to a bigger audience, both viewers and players, increasing the chance of sponsor interest and of a pro-active and interesting scene.

In the end, if we can’t make the balance of the core game work for both comp and pub play, then their might have to be a split. Or perhaps there even ends up being our own comp rule set and a community comp rule set. However, it would be mind blowingly cool for everybody involved if we could make a game mode and set of rules that works for the F2P business model, is interesting to play on pubs and still works for comp at the same time :slight_smile:

(pulley) #5

[QUOTE=Anti;437789]Our big concern with radically different rules for comp and public play, be they changes we set or you folks set via server rules, is that they separate the comp community from the pub community by a long way, helping neither grow.

All of the strongest eSports communities out there right now play their game in competition in a very similar way to how the whole player base plays (games like LoL, HoN, SC2, CS etc). This makes comp play instantly more accessible to a bigger audience, both viewers and players, increasing the chance of sponsor interest and of a pro-active and interesting scene.

In the end, if we can’t make the balance of the core game work for both comp and pub play, then their might have to be a split. Or perhaps there even ends up being our own comp rule set and a community comp rule set. However, it would be mind blowingly cool for everybody involved if we could make a game mode and set of rules that works for the F2P business model, is interesting to play on pubs and still works for comp at the same time :)[/QUOTE]

Anti that is such a great Idee but u will have to make a U-Turn then!

You only name CS as a shooter, now think about it why you do so! Hope your mind will become clear then!

(.Chris.) #6

Radical idea, test new features when added, suggest ways to make them work better if they are unbalanced, SD changes them if needed, test again, more suggestions, more changes, more testing, balanced game for all. I know it’s a strange suggestion for an alpha test to test things but lets give testing a go.

(Bangtastic) #7

A eSport community doesnt depend on which game you play fps, racer, strategy, beat em up. Big comp titles are of the past times more casual games as trackmania, world of tanks and LoL whereas CS Go lacks accessibility for many new gamers, and cs trend is fading away as you can see on big lans^^
Anti already explained.
Its good that DB aims for being a innovational game combining some key elements to a new experience (at least for me :D), fresh air for the fps scene imho :slight_smile:

(Anti) #8

[QUOTE=pulley;437790]Anti that is such a great Idee but u will have to make a U-Turn then!

You only name CS as a shooter, now think about it why you do so! Hope your mind will become clear then![/QUOTE]

I mentioned only one FPS, because that is the state of comp shooters and eSports as a whole right now. The FPS genre used to dominate this market, but it’s lost ground and players to other genres over the last 6-7 years.

What the whole PC multiplayer audience is playing nowadays is something we need to take account of with DB, even if we decide it’s best to do nothing about it and stick to familiar game modes and mechanics.

(Kendle) #9

I have a problem with adding server-side restrictions for comp play.

I remember ET comp started with lots of the stuff that ET pub came with. Then the comp scene took out Mortars (not skilled), MG’s (not skilled), limited the number of mines, added restriction after restriction, all in the name of making the game more skilled.

What really happened was it devolved down to the lowest common denominator (a small sub-set of things most people could agree on). As each thing was removed or restricted someone who played the game for the thing removed or restricted stopped playing, and the player base got smaller. No-one moaned about what was lost of course, because the people who cared about what was lost weren’t around anymore to moan.

Now, ET comp and ET pub are worlds away from each other, to the detriment of both.

I also remember Wolfenstein 2009. It had an Assault Rifle, but it was unavailable to Medics, so guess what? The ET comp scene immediately limited them to 1 per team. They weren’t willing to accept the Medic was no longer the de-facto soldier, and that was 4 years ago. I don’t believe for a moment they won’t do exactly the same thing to DB given half a chance. We’ll end up with all classes except Medic limited to 1 per team and only SMGs allowed.

XP is a different story. ETPro was necessary for ET to work because XP breaks Stopwatch. SD have said they want to work on a way to not allow that to happen. Good luck to them, but if it can’t be made to work then I’d definitely campaign to have XP removed from comp.

(Hyperg) #10

There’s a reason why snooker is not played on a stadium, same as football, even if they both involve shooting, to some degree. Ppl not involved in the actual game need simple obvious rules, high intensity moments (arguably more frequent in snooker actually tbfh), the skill of the players needs to be immediately identifiable to confirm their reputation across the show.

Seeing a team of dudes peeking at corners and killing other dudes hiding behind crates hardly satisfies these issues imo. The conflict needs to be fast, visual and visceral. Tactics will have time to breathe through if the viewer is drawn to what he’s seeing onscreen. You watch a game of SC2, you grasp the idea of unit-vs-unit, you see the players maneuvering large amounts of units simultaneously, you feel the weaker opponent getting cornered and overwhelmed, all this without an intro movie explaining this. You don’t need to know about “build orders” or macro or anything, you just see the conflict unfolding and its pace and visual richness draws you in.

Edit: This ofc has nothing to do with the competition locks, I was just throwing some highlights into this “normal” vs “competition” debate we seem to have allover the forums, concerning the “appeal” of the game to modern audience and its position within competition games.

(pulley) #11

You actually see by the posts who plays serious and who plays j4f…

SD will never ever manage to make this game both for competition and for public players. No1 before did it and no1 ever will! Except you will keep it simple and thats not going to happen if you wonna earn money with mercs and so on…

(Anti) #12

[QUOTE=pulley;437840]You actually see by the posts who plays serious and who plays j4f…

SD will never ever manage to make this game both for competition and for public players. No1 before did it and no1 ever will! Except you will keep it simple and thats not going to happen if you wonna earn money with mercs and so on…[/QUOTE]

Aside from things like round length, and maybe the odd map rule change (minimal changes), comp Quake 3 was for a long time the same as pub Quake 3. The same goes for almost all versions of CS. And LoL, and Dota 2, and SC2. People have made games that can work for both and they’ve had success doing so.

(Kendle) #13

Should also mention, as this thread doesn’t yet have a mention of it and loads of them have recently, RTCW never had restrictions either. It has a comp mod, OSP, which adds things like pause and ready up (which vanilla RTCW didn’t have), but you can run with whatever classes you want (tho iirc Panzer was limited to 1 per team, maybe someone can clarify that?). The reason teams don’t is because they’re inter-dependent, 6 Medics would die real quick due to not having enough ammo to do anything meaningful etc.

(pulley) #14

I wish i could believe in DB becoming the game we are all looking forward to.

The only thing i am hopping atm is that it will become a great public success and we will be able to make it playable with a mod!

(pulley) #15

thats a nice post. And why was it like this? It was simple. No Stickybombs, no Mines, no portable MG Nests. Pure Skill and Teamplay! I would love to see this again but not possible with DB…

(zeroooo) #16

haha could be possible, i think the biggest problem is, that SD doesnt know (anymore) what the “old” comp players from RTCW / ET / and even ET:QW want…

just check out BRINK --> failed that damn hard

so lets see, who developed RTCW --> id software
who developed ET --> id software + splashdamage ~ 11 years ago
who developed ET:QW --> id software + splashdamage ~ 6-7 years ago

who developed brink --> splashdamage ~ 2-3 years ago

so tell me, how many of your old ET and even ET:QW developers are still developing for SD? or has id software done all the main work?

why cant you repeat that great success of this great games? you will never manage it to get a SHOOTERgame where its equal to play pub and comp!

you really need a U-Turn in this game. why dont you manage it that the game is good for comp and let the “pub” players just play the “comp” mode?!

they just want awards and skins and somethings, would be easy to get in, the game is for free, everybody will check it out! just let them play a way like competition mode… restrict things and so on. if pub players dont know about that the mode which they are playing in the basic idea is a competition mode they will not even recognize it…

(Ruben0s) #17

Nein. Nein. Nein. Splashdamage should make the game as I want, so I don’t have to adapt. If they don’t do that the game will fail.

(Nail) #18

why would SD want to make a game that only appeals to less than 5% of the gaming public ? why would anybody ?
RTCW may have been the best Comp shooter ever, never played myself, I started with W:ET, but if that’s the game comp players want, I say let them play it W:ET is still free, I host a nice installer, get a key from eykey.org and play away, I’m even keeping our server running

(pulley) #19

no they should just make a decent game and not build a wall into the map to increase the maptime. But wait it will not increase the map time u just cant get past objetct 1. FAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLFAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

(Bananas) #20

Edit: Nevermind. Not worth it.

Agree with Anti though. A good esports game will not have a split community.