@SD, could you explain to me why is "netcode" so inconsistent?

(ragnak) #1

So, Unlock and Load Update happend and “netcode” was pretty much spot on (sure there were some issues here and there but it was overall great), i had no micro stutters (that i guess are releted to servers having a stroke), my hits were registering, i didnt “trade” kills and i wasnt getting killed too deep behind a wall, it was the best in months.

Few days after that hot fix happend and it already went to ****, in a single round i “traded” kills 3 times, my hit box was obviously lagging behind what i was doing and there were tons of micro stutters, this almost didnt happen when on Unlock and Load Update, just a few days before the hotfix.

Now could you explain to me how could it get worse after the hotfix ? I really try to understand. I mean i could understand if it happened next patch with some bigger changes but when hotfix can ruin servers performance i simply dont get it.

Please SD, tell me that you found a reason for all those netcode issues and that we will have a stable hit detection at some point ;(.

(alphabeta) #2

To confirm, happening for me as well on US east & west servers.

(Szakalot) #3

trading kills is normal, it can happen: im not sure if it requires at least having one player with high ping, or is simply a matter of the frags being very close temporally.

hgetting hit behind a wall is all about the lag spikes of the shooting player. i recently have crappy connections, and sometimes a lag spike would grant me a kill several seconds after i stopped firing, long after the enemy was put of view.

it could very well be that microstutters are also dependent on other players connection, seeing as anyone joining still causes a visible stutter

(FireWorks) #4

[QUOTE=Szakalot;553883]trading kills is normal, it can happen: im not sure if it requires at least having one player with high ping, or is simply a matter of the frags being very close temporally.

hgetting hit behind a wall is all about the lag spikes of the shooting player. i recently have crappy connections, and sometimes a lag spike would grant me a kill several seconds after i stopped firing, long after the enemy was put of view.

it could very well be that microstutters are also dependent on other players connection, seeing as anyone joining still causes a visible stutter[/QUOTE]

Sounds more like the other guys is just selfkilling.

(ragnak) #5

[QUOTE=Szakalot;553883]trading kills is normal, it can happen: im not sure if it requires at least having one player with high ping, or is simply a matter of the frags being very close temporally.

hgetting hit behind a wall is all about the lag spikes of the shooting player. i recently have crappy connections, and sometimes a lag spike would grant me a kill several seconds after i stopped firing, long after the enemy was put of view.

it could very well be that microstutters are also dependent on other players connection, seeing as anyone joining still causes a visible stutter[/QUOTE]

Thing is that most of my issues with netcode were kinda fixed when we were on The Unlock and Load Update, but since latest hotfix it went to **** again.

I still had some micro stutters but they werent as severe so i barely felt them, i cant remember a single instance when i traded kills with someone (especially when he had low ping) and it didnt feel that my hitbox was lagging behind me.

Hotfix happend and boom, trade kills galore, micro stutters as bad as they were and its pretty obvious that the game is out of sync (especially that bodies tend to float more on the ground) since it doesnt matter how good i aim i will always lose at least 50% of my health per duel, as if people were seeing me before i could see them.

At this point i simply dont believe that its my imagination, the difference between The Unlock and Load Update and latest update is freaking huge and since it was only a hotfix i have hard time understanding what went wrong. It is possible that its only a coincidence and SD arent to blame but its nexon screwing up the servers, but still i wish we could get the same hit detection every patch and not it being absolutely random every time they do anything to the game/servers.

(Szakalot) #6

dont think so, seeing as i had often in those cases 1000+ping and crazy rubberbanding.

to me this whole microstutter patch dependency sounds a bit off, i
definitely agree there are games/servers where gameplay is silkysmooth, and other servers with huge stutters, and for a lowebd PC like mine, also significant FPS drops

(Rémy Cabresin) #7

Nexons servers being dog**** and servers not rebooting often enough I guess. =)

(BomBaKlaK) #8

Actually on the server it’s a real Warpomatic, I see the enemies warping every game.
And I got micro slutter when someone is connecting. (same as the previous bug month ago, maybe years)

(ragnak) #9

**** this, gonna wait for another update and hope for the best, but i honestly lose hope at this point. All they had to do was not doing any freaking hotfixes when they know they will break something with it so instead of enjoying the game for a month till next update i could enjoy it for 10 days, thank you based SD.

I am so ****ing tired at this point.

(Nail) #10

do you actually have a freakin clue what Beta meas, don’t think so

(ragnak) #11

Please stop, people like you are the reason why we have 10 years long betas because you give devs the excuse they can always use.

SD monetize it for over a year, as such they consider it to be finished enough for people to pay for it.

The development is super slow, in real betas there are huge changes every month and here SD wont even change old loadout cards becasue “people paid for it”, exactly what you should do in a beta.

And the most important part, netcode in DB was BETTER in CLOSED beta than how it is now and i dont want to hear any excuses.

Micro stutters were also FIXED months ago just to resurface again few months ago.

When DB was in alpha that was your real beta, what we have now is a finished game that have beta tag for PR reasons.

With your logic every f2p game could be a never ending beta because those games are in constant flux since they need new content for people to still play them, i will even ignore the fact that a lot of non beta f2p games have WAY faster development than a game that is suppose to be in a beta.

(Szakalot) #12

never really noticed microstutters to be fixed tbh. esp. the someone connecting bug. Its not the horrendous warpy-warpy anymore, but i still notice it everytime someone is connecting, so much I’ve started to rely on it actually. Might be cause I’m running at low PC specs though.

(ragnak) #13

Well, it would explain why some people cant feel the stutters. I dont have monster PC so most of the time i run on around 140 fps but when someone joins it drops to 90 (or even lower) with very sharp freeze (and i also have a feeling that my game is getting out of sync at that point since strange things tend to happen after that), so its possible that at some patches my overall frame rate was either higher or fps drop werent as massive and as a result i didnt feel the stutters, sadly it doesnt only happen when someone connect to the server ;(.

(BomBaKlaK) #14

Every friend I play with got the micro slutters and warps.
And another question what is the Tickrate of DB ? 40 ? 60 ? more ? less ?

Cause I really think there is also an antilag compensation that put a big mess in all this.

(edxot) #15

The problem is in the net code all right, but not the kind of bug you all are guessing.

There is a small group of people (or even just one person) that can deliver “lag” to other players. Btw, not talking about “lag” like those things that show perfectly in lagometer, heard someone call it “flooding other’s guy conection”. what I am talking about is a system where the victim player just plays normally, with his usual ping and clean lagometer. but he gets a very delayed version of what is happening around him. Like if the packets were buffered (which can be seen as extra latency, no ?). When someone is victimized by this, all sorts of weird things can happen: like shooting someone long after he went after a wall, or people coming out of walls, or lag spikes when you bump into someone, or you get a lag spike every time you get damaged, etc…

Anyway, not sure if this thing is some “top of the line”, super advanced, piece of software, or just the situation that admins might be able to, somehow, force some retarded value of prediction for server clients.

PS: Some spammer called nail will reply something after this post. You are all warned that his words should be ignored (as always), and feel sorry for him too. In fact, in a world where you try to make bots look like humans, here, you have a human trying to look like a bot.

(ragnak) #16

I am not saying that what you say dont exist, but if this was the case for me i wouldnt have a great time on whole patch x and horrible experience on patch y, its simply not possible.

(BomBaKlaK) #17

Feel worst since the last update, hit detection is a real joke sometimes.

(edxot) #18

Just to make something clear: hit-detection works all right, like always has done.

The thing is that those hits will be taken under account much later than they would normally do. Meaning that most of the times you are already dead, and they never get accounted.

This is noticeable when you shoot someone that is trying to hide behind a wall. You feel that the enemy has gotten away, but then he dies (2 seconds later or so) from your shots.

Regarding the update thing. It may look that the update brought these issues along. But it may be something different.

What i described earlier is in use for a long time. And some players are getting advantage from it. And here I must say that these are not ordinary players. Because ordinary players play the game, and when they lose, they improve their cfg, hardware or strategy, and they get better. This does not happen to those who are taking advantage of what I describe earlier.

From my perspective, what happened is this:

  • some bug got fixed in the code.
  • some guys who could take advantage from it, can’t do it any longer.
  • then, a whole new bunch of “ordinary” players can own them.
  • so those new “ordinary” players get targeted for “lag”, together with those who were already being targeted.

From what i seen (and tested) playing ETQW for a long time, this system is not client side:

  • I had to consider that possibility. Because it could have been done either in the computer, router, or ISP.
  • It was when “the group thing” was brought back to life with 12v12 games, that I understood this. My “extra latency” was gone for a few days. Just before it came back definitely.

Btw, in the begging of this whole issue (6 to 8 years ago), I thought it was some stuff placed in the borders of countries (either with military or political intentions). So I didn’t worry too much about getting it fixed (kind of impossible).

(Nail) #19

LOL, the farce is strong with this one