sc2 match making style

(system) #81

[QUOTE=tokamak;264307]If leagues matter to tournaments, then the leagues are competitive. Otherwise they wouldn’t have any value to them.

The level of skill doesn’t matter. In SC2 players play competitively across the entire spectrum of skill. Most people are trying to climb the ladder no matter how hard they suck at the game, that makes them competitive. Even if you’ve conceded that you’ll never get into diamond or top 200, that doesn’t mean you’re not a competitive player.

And yes I would love to see tournaments in different skill brackets as well. In SC2 and in Brink.[/QUOTE]

Again, leagues matter to SOME tournaments. And I will stay by my words, a competitive player is one who has mainly interests in winning tournaments, not being first on the score board on a public server.

I’m curios, do you think of yourself as competitive? 1st place in a bronze division? What kind of a competitive player is that?

(.Chris.) #82

A not as skilled competitive player.

I guess non premier league football teams aren’t competitive either?

(Apples) #83

[QUOTE=.Chris.;264544]A not as skilled competitive player.

I guess non premier league football teams aren’t competitive either?[/QUOTE]

Nope, everyone win a trophy and a candybar :smiley:

I stopped with etek already, it’s relaxing.

(system) #84

[QUOTE=.Chris.;264544]A not as skilled competitive player.

I guess non premier league football teams aren’t competitive either?[/QUOTE]

Yes they are. You playing with your friends sunday evening is not competitive.
Next thing you know, everybody here starts thinking of themselves as professional gamers. Get a life.

Anyway, SC2 proved ranked matchmaking works and can provide challenging yet fair matches for most of the people. It has issues finding fair games for people who are ranked very low or very high.
But Brink does use, or at least I think it does allow people to have their own dedicated servers. And matchmaking and dedicated servers do not actually mix well. We tried with Left 4 Dead and it was a major pain in the ass. I’d like to see a server forcing teams to be even based on players skills.

(.Chris.) #85

[QUOTE=Etek;264548]Yes they are. You playing with your friends sunday evening is not competitive.
Next thing you know, everybody here starts thinking of themselves as professional gamers. Get a life.[/QUOTE]

Wow, just wow…

I haven’t a clue what bronze division means in SC2 but it sounds like to me it’s the 3rd division or so.

Many games and sports have lower divisions, those who compete in them maybe of lower skill but they remain competitive.

Who here said playing on Sundays only is competitive?

(murka) #86

Being professional means by definition that you earn money for it. Even if you are way less skilled than some, gaming for money makes you professional, not whether you play in premier or 5th league.

I’ve never seen pub players being so elitist before… Seriously, what drives your gears?

(tokamak) #87

[QUOTE=Etek;264541]Again, leagues matter to SOME tournaments. And I will stay by my words, a competitive player is one who has mainly interests in winning tournaments, not being first on the score board on a public server.

I’m curios, do you think of yourself as competitive? 1st place in a bronze division? What kind of a competitive player is that?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do see myself as a competitive player. Being competitive doesn’t have anything to do with skill which I admit, frankly sucks. Where does this idea that competitive=skill come from anyway? The tournament players are closer to professional players, trying to get sponsors and all. If I weren’t a competitive player I would be playing custom matches which I’m not interested in at all. I need to feel the weight of ascending or descending after a match.

I play to climb the ladder, that means I compete with other players. This is seperate from any other pub play where winning or losing a match doesn’t have any further consequences in the career of that game.

The precise matches are a plus, I wouldn’t mind if they were a bit rougher, because that’s not the reason I play ladder games.

You’re just confusing ‘being a professional’ and ‘being competitive’. They’re different things.

Being competitive is not a status, it’s not an achievement, it’s just a label for preferences in the way you like to play.

It’s the lowest 25% of the playerbase. Yes, I am among the lowest quarter of players. But your position on the ladder does indeed not mean that you’re not trying to climb it, which is all it takes to be competitive.

(system) #88

Just to make it clear. There are master league, diamond league, platinum, gold, silver and bronze. And if you check player distribution on sc2ranks.com, bronze players account for about 45% of tge player base.

Ok, you are competitive in the way that you don’t just play for fun, but you actually are trying to climb the ladder. I’m ok with that. However, how do competitive players differ from casuals in a game like brink?

Oh, and those players you see on gsl, they play a lot more custom games than ladder.

(H0RSE) #89

how do competitive players differ from casuals in a game like brink?

For starters, casual players would probably opt for playing with default settings (FF off, voip off, etc.) and only play pub matches, whereas comp players would play with different settings, possibly in a league and most likely with some sort of pro mod or settings.

(system) #90

So how is a matchmaking supposed to work for competitve players if they play on different servers with custom settings?

(DarkangelUK) #91

By not using match making, and using the server browser or connect with direct IP.

(system) #92

So in the end I was right, matchmaking doesn’t work for competitive players.

(murka) #93

If it works WRONG, the competitive community will not accept it as a whole.

(brbrbr) #94

no.
just another “community” will form.

(tokamak) #95

Yeah but 25% of the active playerbase. I wish I was edging on the top of 45% of the playerbase, I really do. But it’s 25%.

Ok, you are competitive in the way that you don’t just play for fun, but you actually are trying to climb the ladder. I’m ok with that. However, how do competitive players differ from casuals in a game like brink?

It’s very similar, Because Brink is a shooter, the free pub matches will be way more numerous than rated games. For SC2 the rated games look casual simply because that’s where the vast majority of players.

Oh, and those players you see on gsl, they play a lot more custom games than ladder.

Yeah that’s what I call professional. These guys have high-skilled sparring partners.

[/QUOTE]

I get where you’re coming from, but including this angle into the debate would turn the entire thing even more into just semantics.

(Cankor) #96

This is the whole point of this thread. A built in matchmaking system for teams.

As to how it would work, there would of course be servers with enforced settings, those settings might be different for different sized teams (different ladders).

The point is to have a typical league/ladder type system built into the interface so it is discoverable by the entire player base. It’s not for every single match, it’s not for pub play. It’s optional, join a team and sign your team up, have fun, steal underpants, get the profit.

And as far as competitive, argung Tok’s point, if you are on one of those teams in that ladder you are a competitive player regardless of your standing and regardless of your skill. You may not be a top comp player, but just by engaging in a formalized competitive match makes you a comp player (at least for that match.

(tokamak) #97

Without the lower comp players there wouldn’t even be ‘top’ comp players.

And yes, the whole point is to make it accesible, lowering the bar to everyone. In SC2 it’s simply pressing ‘play’ and you’re in ladder games.

(Ashog) #98

And it WILL work wrong.

SC2 matchmaking IS broken. Read sc2 forums. Dozens of posts about just how badly the algorythm works. Even the mighty programmer team at Blizzard failed at this, so what do you guys think will happen regarding a small SD team?

Subdivision in SC2 leagues isn’t how they planned (more or less equal number of players)

Matchmaking of 2x2 or 2x3 or 4x4 games for bronze players CONSTANTLY forces them to play against people from higher leagues

Climbing the ladder is practically impossible - it takes virtually hundreds of games for the algorythm to decide how good you are and place you to a higher league, etc.

Event the Blizzard team keeps steady silence by not replying nor discussing these problems, which can only be understood as that they fully acknowledge their fail.

(tokamak) #99

The players aren’t pooled in subdivisions. The bronze/silver/gold/platinum/diamon/master leagues are superficial. Underneat is an incremental matchmaking system that doesn´t take leagues into account, only the dynamic rating each player has. I´m a bronze player but half the players I come up against are silver players, indicating that I´m on the border of silver and bronze. There are even more extreme examples of expert players doing worker rushes to get a fast portrait reward, racking up hundreds of matches as bottomfeeders and then starting to play for real and reaching diamond in a relatively small amount of games.

If you keep building a winning streak, you’re being pitted against higher and higher teams compared to your own rating. Winning against then will increases your rating with leaps and you’ll be in the right division before you know it.

It´s not about the leagues, it´s about the rating. SC2 uses an ELO rating but hides it while WoW shows that such ratings don´t need to be hidden in order to work.

(Ashog) #100

you won’t ever listen, will you?