Rhino Nerfs

(Ritobasu) #1
  • Increased minigun startup by 150ms
  • Decreased maximum spread of minigun by 10%
  • Nerfed Nitro augment to 40% increase in barrel acceleration instead of 50%

Splash Damage does it again with the completely unwarranted nerfs and making THE meta card even more mandatory to use on Rhino. This nerf was so dumb and retarded, I actually read the minigun startup increase as a DECREASE in order to make the one Nitro card not simply outclass others by existing until I reread the patch notes later

Rhino needs LESS minigun startup time to be more competitive and versatile on all maps, and his augments need to be adjusted to make Nitro not required to do well in high level play. Why would you make BOTH worse at the same time?

(Jesus) #2

[quote=“Ritobasu;24211”]- Increased minigun startup by 150ms

  • Decreased maximum spread of minigun by 10%
  • Nerfed Nitro augment to 40% increase in barrel acceleration instead of 50%

Splash Damage does it again with the completely unwarranted nerfs and making THE meta card even more mandatory to use on Rhino. This nerf was so dumb and retarded, I actually read the minigun startup increase as a DECREASE in order to make the one Nitro card not simply outclass others by existing until I reread the patch notes later

Rhino needs LESS minigun startup time to be more competitive and versatile on all maps, and his augments need to be adjusted to make Nitro not required to do well in high level play. Why would you make BOTH worse at the same time?[/quote]

Yeah except the Increased accuracy buff which is definitly noticeable if you are used to play rhino before the NERF/BUFF who wasnt playing with Nitro or Icecool already anyway ? it gives such a huge advantage. Buts its true the IcecoolCard really took a hit now

(PleasantWheat) #3

Whenever i play Rhino I ALWAYS use the A51 Vanguard close assault. As one of my most played mercs (h8rs gun h8) I don’t think rhino is all that at a disadvantage without ice cold or n20. The N20 augment just allows you to surprise people better because you could long jump around corners and have it spun up by the time you hit the ground, but you cant do that anymore as of the jumping accuracy nerfs. Ice cold just lets you shoot more so its only really good for suppressing/scaring people. There are only a couple things that i think would make rhino not so niche;

  1. Improve movement speed whilst spun/spinning up. You can easily take out a good portion of a rhinos health by shooting his arms as he rounds a corner before he even has sight of you.

  2. Have the accuracy of the minigun have about 10-20% more spread from whatever it is normally (without firing) but keep the spread static.

I think the changes that were made were only to gauge the communities reaction regarding what needs to be done about rhino as he is a fairly divisive merc. But thats just my 5 cents on the issue

(Dieu-Sama) #4

Exactly, I use R93 because I have it in cobalt ( :* ), but people clearly overestimate the advantage of Nitro . . .

And Ice Cold was always a shitty augment, you NEVER want to fire the minigun for more than 3 sec anyway, even with the spread nerfed

R93 and A51 shine above all for the sake of Unshackable. That’s all. In fact, I’d say A51 is even better than R93 because you get the best shotty for Rhino, and Tough.

(Amerika) #5

Their ECHO stats showed that Rhino was way too good in KDR and the ability to stay alive. Which is a stat that makes me really question ECHO. Especially if they were only focusing on high-end games where he’s only used very sparingly in very particular circumstances and almost always has a health station/support which would artificially increase these stats.

I’m not a fan of the nerf even if they made the spread slightly less…but nobody who was good fired long enough to really be affected by the crazy spread and 10% reduction isn’t a huge change since they changed 10% of something large (much like changing 10% spread on something small like with the Stark).

(ostmustis) #6

they should trash their echo data since they dont seem able to use it properly

(civilProvolone) #7

I consider myself a very good Rhino player in the sense that proper use of environment will be what makes Rhino strong on a map. However I never feel overpowered due to severe weaknesses that balance him out. He is area control, and much as one won’t (shouldn’t) run into stokers fire, one shouldn’t run into his minigun. Yet people still do, especially as people treat this game more run n gun style rather than team work oriented. With that said, I find it ironic that his high KDR stats are such a scary factor against this assault merc. Simultaneously a high KDR does not necessarily equate to a high game score.
Really, there is too much nerfing happening that’s based less on creative innovation (player recommendations) and more on statistical analysis. If Rhino was OP, why do I hardly see him around compared to other ‘to purchase’ mercs (Nader, fletcher, sawbonez, etc). That Being the case, if you want to Rhino to have lower KDR impact (directly impacted his score), He should receive specific points for his sole ability in the game. Heck, give him ‘wall’ points for taking more damage than his max health in one said life. But at least something…

(Reddeadcap) #8

As someone who uses Rhino, I have to admit I’m glad they at least fixed that Cool was applying on his minigun.

I haven’t really noticed the wind up and Nitros nerfs, but I can say, if it’s so that people can attack Rhino while he didn’t have his minigun revving beforehand I can say that it’s working.

The accuracy is really noticible, so I can’t say if these changes are doing anything than giving Rhino’s enemy a window of opportunity to fight back if his minigun isn’t revved, Which makes perfect sense.

(KattiValk) #9

Rhino really didn’t need any nerfs, he was already so susceptible to explosives as is.

I kind of wish he had a reaaaaally long spin up time but high damage and accuracy that would begin shooting at a slow rate and increase over time so he could be as deadly but more skill based with a belt cap instead of some silly overheating system on a gun that is built to not overheat.

(solace_) #10

I honestly think he needs some buffs. He is far too easy to take down by most mercs. He probably needs a bit of a rework to fit in with the new meta. A lot of the older mercs haven’t been updated properly to fit with Dirty Bombs new play-scape.

(Dawnlazy) #11

Too many people use the Nitros card, better nerf spin-up time to make him more dependent on Nitros.

Too many people use cards with Bigger Blast on Nader, better nerf the blast radius to make her more dependent on Bigger Blast.

(Reddeadcap) #12

I know it’d hardly happen, but for him to walk at the same speed with his minigun revved as it is unrevved would be my dream patch, maybe have him unable to sprint with his minigun held though.

[quote=“Dawnrazor;150660”]Too many people use the Nitros card, better nerf spin-up time to make him more dependent on Nitros.

Too many people use cards with Bigger Blast on Nader, better nerf the blast radius to make her more dependent on Bigger Blast.[/quote]

Hey, at least they finally made it so that Cool doesn’t apply on the minigun like a more powerful Ice Cold, it’s a little bit more of a welcoming choice… not by much though.

(Trestos) #13

I play Rhino with the Ice Cold ability. Faster Spinning time is nice but i like my cheese with more holes in it :slight_smile:

(Amerika) #14

[quote=“Dawnrazor;150660”]Too many people use the Nitros card, better nerf spin-up time to make him more dependent on Nitros.

Too many people use cards with Bigger Blast on Nader, better nerf the blast radius to make her more dependent on Bigger Blast.[/quote]

Yeah, this is where I question SD’s design meetings. I’m always a fan of identifying things that work and aren’t overpowered and then building around that as opposed to trying to take away from things that work. The better option would be to nerf the augments if they HAD to nerf. Which I don’t feel like they did.

(capriRocket) #15

overall a buff imo, his accuracy is considerably better now.
i assume the max spread reduction now lets the spread go back to zero faster thus improving bursting.
now i can chip off health more rapidly and from further away.

maybe i misunderstand what amerika wrote but i disagree, i say: 10% of something large is a bigger deal and more noticeable than 10% of something small.
(10% bigger aoe for a sticky would be a tiny change, 10% more aoe on an airstrike would be like 2 meters wider).

improving minigun accuracy is the only way to get him out of his niche zone, adjust anything else as you see fit.

(AlphaUT) #16

Yet I still think Rhino is one of the most strongest mercs in the game after the nerf. Players will never satisfy. Minigun =/= The only play style that he has. He has strong shotgun and 200 HP that will make him pretty strong in close fight. Not to mention how annoying when a good rhino switch two weapons properly, dodge, and take cover under right circumstances, not just only sit with health stations and wait for Stoker to burns him, Nader feed fatty with her nades, Vassili come to HS him, or even just wait Fragger’s potato.

(Ritobasu) #17

[quote=“capriRocket;153766”]overall a buff imo, his accuracy is considerably better now.
i assume the max spread reduction now lets the spread go back to zero faster thus improving bursting.[/quote]
Has anyone actually tested this? Max spread was never a thing anyways because most decent Rhinos don’t hit max spread, just as you said yourself b/c they do short bursts

That’s besides the point. Just as someone said, they nerfed his minigun spinup time AND Nitro augment, when they should’ve nerfed the augment but buff Rhino to make him less reliant on it. Rhino is extremely situational because he has serious mobility issues, why make it even harder?

(Ritobasu) #18

Also forgot to add earlier, the jumping spread nerfs that generated a ton of controversy around Vassili also affected Rhino as well. If you jump while reving your minigun and fire, you’ll already start with a much higher base spread vs standing and spinning before firing. I’ll need to test this to confirm later, but I do recalling having a ton of trouble winning fights that started with a jump spin, as opposed to simply sitting down and spinning before firing

It’s even more reason to question SD’s balancing decisions around Rhino, seems like they just want him to be a mobile Bushwhacker turret with more HP and firepower

(Vaasref) #19

JumpSpin was a thing, now it’s really not consistent enough.

If you add the spin time nerf (not even talking about the N2O nerf since I only use Ice Cold) That makes Rhino which was not really a good pusher anyway an even more easy target.

I tend to rely on cover more and just blocking a zone unless a skilled explosive bearer achieve to hit me hard enough.

It can arguibly be the role of Rhino of course, but it’s quite alienating.

When you play Rhino aim is maybe the least relevant thing. Statistics is his things gameplay and lore-wise which I love about him : he is a really good character.
He has a minigun to do 3000dps so if your target cover 100% of your cone you do 100% of the damage. Playing with him is all about trading cover percentage versus cone coverage.

When you are moving you need to know all jump and mobility tricks to keep up with other mercs, then you need to anticipate the enemy position and attitude to set you in the right position.

The fact Rhino is less about aim & tracking makes him more brain game based and that fit perfectly his neo-liberal economist character. But making him that static is not a good thing.

(MTLMortis) #20

Rhino mobility problems solved.