Remove shuffle team system

(Sytry) #1

Teams are never balance in objective,execution and stopwatch and when players trying to shuffle nobody agree and when teams are agree to shuffle you get unbalanced teams that nobody is happy so I suggest to remove that system because is useless and only abused by skilled players to beat the noobs.

#2

Play ranked or casual matchmaking. No shuffle votes in there.

(Sawbonez) #3

Shuffle teams is a great feature, but it should be renamed to “re-balance” or something like that in order to clearly state what it’s actually intended for. I don’t think removing the shuffle system would solve any problems. It has already been patched to limit the amount of shuffle attempts that can happen in a match.

I’ve talked about this issue before on other DB forums but the problem is not the shuffle system - it is simply good sportsmanship vs. bad sportsmanship. I have seen games where a shuffle happens and nothing changes - no one is moved except for a bottom-scoreboard player. I have also seen very good players refuse to shuffle, and insist on playing with very obviously imbalanced teams. The worst is when there is an impending shuffle, and players immediately switch to spectator to avoid the shuffle vote and/or re-stack teams shortly after the shuffle. Players like these truly ruin the shuffle system. They ruin Dirty Bomb. They ruin video games in general. These players care only about their own enjoyment at the expense of others. Worst of all, their anti-shuffle behaviour damages competitive spirit, which is something I think drives games like DB forward in the industry.

On the other hand, I have seen games where if a shuffle fails, or if there’s a player-imbalance like 5v6, the best player on the winning team switches over. Sadly it doesn’t always change the inevitable result, but if more players thought less selfishly and more about the team, and even more about both teams, we would have a much better community in general. After all, most of us are just here to have a good time. Those of us wanting a bit of competition want more competitive games - and team balance is the only way to achieve this level of competitiveness (apart from organised tournaments of course).

To consider yet another perspective: improve your own skill. Get better, become one of these “skilled players” you talk about, and you won’t have to worry about shuffle at all because you’ll perform well on any team. Sadly, personal performance isn’t rewarded in unranked games, and anyone on a winning team gets rewarded even if they were being a detriment to their own team.

Personally, I always vote yes to shuffle even if a shuffle vote could play against my team, because in my experiences a shuffle has always encouraged more competitive gameplay (even if it is within the last minute of the game). The shuffle system generally creates a more competitive match.

tl;dr there are bad players with bad ethics in every game, sometimes not all players are bad, improve yourself, and always vote yes for a shuffle because shuffle algorithm is correct most of the time.

(Chronicler) #4

There needs to be limitations though, I’ve been in fairly balanced games where my side was winning (stopwatch), with maybe 5 min or so left someone calls shuffle…

(Sytry) #5

Only in Ranked you don’t have shuffle system and if you play db then you should know.

Must common problem in all three modes objective,stopwatch, execution.

(scre4m.) #6

I would welcome to remove shuffle votes in stopwatch DURING rounds. Shuffling before or after a match is ok, but when the purpose of the game mode is to be faster than an opposing team and you change the teams half-way the whole match is pointless.

(alphabeta) #7

Have to agree with the logic in that. Nothing worse than having a good team that is all over the objectives, playing well together, and you are at the final objective in rapid time… and then you get shuffled to the other side and have to beat an impossible time.

(Szakalot) #8

i call it the ‘good team fallacy’ : just because the other team is getting stomped, doesnt mean your team has any teamwork. but yeah, shuffles in SW should be equivalent to ‘shuffle and restart’ and disabled at the onset of 2nd round

(Mchoi) #9

I agree that shuffling in the 2nd half of SW is a bit much. I’ve been shuffled into a loss or brutal stomp more times than I can count, doesn’t feel good. Can only imagine how new players feel about it.

(UnaSalusVictus) #10

i suggest this

remove shuffle, replace with surrender, then replace restart map with shuffle and restart map.

add a system that auto shuffles if teams are out of balance (number wise) by 2 or more and nobody swaps/joins in X seconds.

if a rounds objectives are moving to fast, perhaps auto restart and shuffle.

only a hand full of people really enjoy rapes, most people get board.

its also why quite a few of my friends wont play this game, they tried it, and not even being able to leave the spawn most of several rounds in a row… just… really dosnt sit well.

add to this the waves of botters…ugg…

(Violator) #11

What would help this would be to stop all players of level 100+ always ending up on the same team.

(B_Montiel) #12

What would also help is to clearly state to players that staying on the same server between matches help balancing things.
Maybe giving a slight bonus to anyone longer than 2 or 3 consecutive matches on the same server would be an interesting incentive to give.

To be honest, I also feel like the lobby scramble makes some questionable choices recently.

(alphabeta) #13

Plus no one should be able to spectate while in the MM lobby. I know more than one devious player who spectates until teams are finalized, then attempts to join the stronger team.

(TyroneTheRed) #14

Thanks for the add

(Theel) #15

I have 4 different experiences with the shuffle teams by skill system.

  1. The teams don’t actually shuffle by skill, it just swaps the players so the “better” team is on the losing side. Pretty much forcing them to beat their own time, which usually results in a loss for them. This is extremely rage inducing as usually the server will go super toxic after this happens. The server will be empty within minutes (unless replacement fill it quickly enough, which seems to be getting more rare these days).

  2. The teams barely change, just a few players get split that want to be on the same side. This will often lead to retarded stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StZjF7LlL94 (imagine being a new player and joining this server as your first DB experience).

Also usually a skilled player that ends up on a team he doesn’t want to be on will go limp and hide until someone on his team rages and his friend can swap. I’ll admit I do this all the time as I think the shuffle teams thing is the single worst thing about DB right now.

  1. The **** over of the best player. Countless games I’ve seen a last minute shuffle and all it does is force the winning team’s best player over to losing team. This has 2 outcomes, the player raging or going limp. It has absolutely no change to the outcome of the match and all it does is piss off the best player of the game.

  2. My friends and I all manage to get on the same team and a shuffle is forced on us, we have 2 on one team and 1 on the other after the shuffle. All we do is wait until there is room for the loner to switch at which point the teams are basically unfair again as we are all on the same team. Effectively making the shuffle completely useless. The friend team stack will usually cause rage among the rest of the players and another shuffle will be attempted. This will usually fail, but sometimes if it passes the situation ends up like #2 above. Or one of us going limp or even trolling the team. This might lead to a kick of the lone player trolling his team, this is when war is declared and the real toxicity starts.

I am openly telling you of our toxic actions because honestly I’m not proud of them. I don’t find myself to be this type of player in most games.

If you don’t want the community or us players to be so toxic, then I suggest you remove the most toxic inducing part of server browser play. The shuffle teams by skill vote.

No game has fair teams with server browser style match-ups. If you think that exists, you are in denial. Hell in CS:GO, I alone would pretty much make teams always unfair, this is a bit harder to do in DB. If you want to get the community to be supportive, desire fairness, and not as toxic, then you have to reward good behavior. That is the bottom line. Having systems which piss off players (veterans or bad players) or create situations where players don’t even want to try, you are doing the community a disservice and causing the toxicity.

If it is still your mission to make it so new players don’t end up on a team that is getting spawn camped and under constant rage. I’d suggest finding a way to get the best players to WANT to balance the match, even betray his own friends to get the “reward” for taking such a noble action and playing on that team. Or just end it as quickly as possible, surrender vote?