Remove Chapel OR FIX IT.

(forthrightParrot) #1

Sorry if I sound rude, but to the designers of this map: This is just an ugly tragedy of a map. I have already posted many times with details about why this is a failure in map design, and I am to tired to do so again, but feel free to go back and read the other posts. A summary is that the map is designed with the idea of spawn locking the enemy. That is never good design.

Just killed enemies hiding behind the rock? Doesn’t matter, they spawn there.
Secured the zone? Better keep spawn killing them.
The map is either a one-sided slaughter for the defenders, or they are being repeatedly killed from their spawn. Neither is good. Neither is fun. Neither is “tactical”.
You have to be INDISPUTABLY better than the defenders to push and hold the zone.

This map (final objective) is an utter failure in design and needs to be removed or fixed. Want to argue otherwise? Feel free to comment with facts and explanations regarding its design. Comments such as “well I win all the time on it” or other unoriginal thoughts that lack any substance of why you think the design is good will be ignored.

(Glot) #2

easy way to fix it is this:

CUrrent delivery point should be point where you steal the OBJ
and then you need run like hell and secure it in the Chapel or in the Garage.

some aditional routes will be needed ofc, but mainly thats about it.
it was suggested many many times before.

my personal idea was this:
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/41508-Whitechapel-Last-Object-Ideas

(not very good pictures, but i am bad with paintbrush)
main points:

  1. chapel is the name of the map, chapel should play a role
  2. Def spawn and delivery point should be in different places, but on 1 line, with several parallel routes for secure: fast&dangerous, slow$easy and middlepath.
  3. Defs can intercept the attackers midway to the delivery point.
(Thai-San) #3

[quote=“Glottis-3D;21749”]CUrrent delivery point should be point where you steal the OBJ
and then you need run like hell and secure it in the Chapel or in the Garage.[/quote]

Please no. I don’t want another Bridge.
When the whole team is on defense and the attackers manage to steal the objective the def team is done for because they have to
-spawn
-fight their way to the enemy spawn
-though the enemy spawn
-kill the runner with the objective
-guard it to reset it

Which is already close to impossible on Bridge, but on chapel with the delivery point being at the chapel? Nope, impossible.

The only way this could work if there’s an optional spawn for the def team near the chapel itself so the respawn can wait for the runner or a secret tunnel that leads directly to the chapel and it’s accessible for the atk team.

I’d say that the defs need another way to the delivery point that can’t be seen by snipers from the wall.

(Glot) #4

[quote=“ThaiSan;21765”][quote=“Glottis-3D;21749”]CUrrent delivery point should be point where you steal the OBJ
and then you need run like hell and secure it in the Chapel or in the Garage.[/quote]

Please no. I don’t want another Bridge.
When the whole team is on defense and the attackers manage to steal the objective the def team is done for because they have to
-spawn
-fight their way to the enemy spawn
-though the enemy spawn
-kill the runner with the objective
-guard it to reset it

Which is already close to impossible on Bridge, but on chapel with the delivery point being at the chapel? Nope, impossible.

The only way this could work if there’s an optional spawn for the def team near the chapel itself so the respawn can wait for the runner or a secret tunnel that leads directly to the chapel and it’s accessible for the atk team.

I’d say that the defs need another way to the delivery point that can’t be seen by snipers from the wall.[/quote]

who told you that delivery is at the enmy spawn like in bridge?
i know i am a bad painter, but i hoped it was clear in the link, that one of the main points is for defenders to have access to the chapel to intercept the delivery. (asuuming you read the link=))

and yes. CUrrent Bridge is temporary. the REAL map is called Bridge_alt, and it has a proper doc run, just like stated above - several routes to delivery point all mostly parallel and interceptable bt defebders to defferent extent (some are easier to run some are not)

(Thai-San) #5

Something in my head went:
“NOPE NOPE NOPE.avi Please no more Bridge” ^^

Would you mind and post the pics here too?

(Glot) #6

sure.

main layout point:

mirror everything in last object from left to right - so that defenders spawn will be on chapel’s side in relation to EV road.

defs will have eccess to the back of the chapel and attackers will have main access (under MG) (destroyed by EV gun shot)

http://s24.postimg.org/ex907szhh/Chapel_mirror.jpg

http://s28.postimg.org/viwm6hq71/Chapel_mirror_2.jpg

(Thai-San) #7

Hrm, yeah. Could be awesome.
But what’s with the lower dirty/construction area. Would it still be in your chapel version? Doesn’t seem like it or did I get your pic wrong?

It’s funny how different it looks when mirrored ^^

(Glot) #8

[quote=“ThaiSan;21782”]Hrm, yeah. Could be awesome.
But what’s with the lower dirty/construction area. Would it still be in your chapel version? Doesn’t seem like it or did I get your pic wrong?

It’s funny how different it looks when mirrored ^^
[/quote]
construction area could very well be the Dangerous ROute (and thus the fastest) to the chapel.
i didnt think the exact layout, just the concept. i can see the overal strategy and stuff, but i am not a mapper.
but i get realy exited when i think of when SDK comes out, and real map-makers will get into bussiness.

(forthrightParrot) #9

I really want to see more ways to take advantage of the gameplay mechanics. It would be nice to see not only more viable and obvious routes, but also unique routes only accessible by using the parkour aspect of the game. And I mean multiple risky jumps required, not just the single jump shortcuts that some maps have one or two of. In my opinion there is so much more potential being wasted at the moment.

(Ardez1) #10

Why not just turn it into a modified GoldRush then?

Bring the EV to the garage. Steal the two EMPs and turn them into the EV and then get the EV to an extraction point. No map is like that yet :slight_smile: Just open up that road to the left of the garage as the escape route and give the defends current final spawn a second exit towards the EV escape route.

But if you want a fix for the spawnkilling at the end of Chapel, just add a second route out of the spawn or give them some roof.

(goodField) #11

I honestly haven’t had an issue with Chapel. Defender and Attacker, on all 3 objectives. There’s a decent variety of flanking routes on the map it doesn’t feel like an issue at all.

The only map I had issue with honestly was Terminal, and that was simply because of the confusing layout with the Bridge that runs through the middle of the second half of the map.