Regarding Thunder......are we going about these Conc Nades the wrong way?

(watsyurdeal) #1

I mean let’s really think about this.

Flashbang, it’s blinding effect, but only lasts a few seconds at best, and Thunder is going to be even slower, so catching up to enemies while they are under the effects, is really not going to work.

No see this type of grenade would work best on a new merc, a lightweight merc built on speed and power, but fragile, so he or she needs the blinding effects to make up for how little HP they have, and the speed would help with avoiding lucky shots from the enemy while they are blinded.

No, Thunder if he’s going to be like this needs something different, he needs something that can disorient and debuff his enemies.

I can’t remember who stated this, but they were on track with something. The Debilitation effect from Aimee’s camera opens the door to a simple concept, where enemies that are concussed take more damage for x amount of time.

But what I am proposing is something a little more direct, a nade that doesn’t deal enough damage to kill anyone in a single hit, but does enough to at least take away a good chunk of their health, and disorient them, blurring their vision and hindering their movement options.

What I am proposing is the new nade deal a max of 60 damage, and a min of 30. So no matter how far you are from the radius it deals enough damage to give Thunder an advantage, then on top of the concussive effects, you are very vulnerable. The animation of mercs covering their face and their eyes when hit is a good enough cue to let the Thunder know who was hit, and he can mow them down with the MK46.

It would work, and even though he can’t cook nades, he doesn’t need to, Thunder’s Conc Nades are quick and can be used right away to disrupt and push, and he can go from there mowing them down. He would be a much more effective crowd control merc than Fragger, he’d actually have a distinct role.

I think this would be enough to make him viable, but what do you think?

(SaulWolfden) #2

I’d much rather have a light damaging grenade than a flash effect.

(Dysfnal) #3

@Watsyurdeal you’re a genius, this just seems like a good idea in general, though they’d have to revert the range buffs or at least adjust them

(SzGamer227) #4

I actually think you’re looking at it wrong, mate. Thunder doesn’t have a problem chasing down flashed enemies, because the blinding effect makes it nigh on impossible to navigate geometry, so if someone tries to run, Thunder just has to find the wall they got stuck on and mow them down from behind.

No. The problem is that Thunder was not able to properly push on enemy defensive locations like he was designed to, because the flash effect didn’t negate enemy HUD, so a wounded Thunder (having the enormous hitbox that he does) would be easily taken out if he tried to eliminate a supposedly easy target. Thunder’s upcoming changes (increased health to match his hitbox, flash effect properly hindering enemy HUD, shorter fuse for less time to react, jump height reduction to prevent bunny hopping) should remedy these shortcomings and make Thunder great deal more viable.

Debilitation from Concs was my idea: I proposed it on the point that enemies that took more damage form bullets while Conc’d would be more vulnerable and properly distressed by the possibility of an incoming Thunder and making him the ideal point-man he was designed to be. I’ll have to feel out his upcoming changes for myself, but I still have the suspicion that Debilitation will still be necessary to make up for inconsistent blinding effects when making an assault on an enemy location.

I was confused as to why they are removing his EMP effect though. It seems they’ve traded actual effective Concussion effects for taking away Thunder’s ability to clear out (or not worry about) enemy deployables. I don’t like it. EMP effect may not have been effective compared to other combat mercs’ abilities, but it was an important factor in mimicing their deployable-clearing capacity without outright using explosive damage. I don’t like the idea of Conc Nades causing damage because then Thunder becomes a heavier Fragger with cheaper grenades, with no distinguishing strong suit or specialty. I would very much like to see his EMP ability restored for these reasons.

After exploring the update a bit, I plan on making “My Definitive Stance on Making Thunder Viable” thread to properly compile and express my opinions about Thunder’s strengths, weaknesses, and how he should be changed to fit into Dirty Bomb’s faced-paced combat. It certainly isn’t something I’m going to be taking lightly. I advise you wait for published results. :wink:

(JJMAJR) #5

I think that many of the mercs should have been designed a little bit differently in flavor from the get-go.

Thunder should have been a sniper instead of a midranged assault.
Aimee should have been a shotgun player, not have that BS debilitation effect, and have a different name to suit that, like Camstar or something related to her ability.
Redeye should have at least used a Stark.

Fire Supports could have used more diversity, and possibly have some builds where they carry primaries as sidearms. For example, Stoker has Hochfir/Blish/SMG-9 as primaries, Remburg/Hollunds/Timik as secondaries. Kira keeps the Stark but instead of the BR-16, she uses the Grandeur.

Etc. etc…

Sadly this is not the case. I given up on this matter altogether.

Meanwhile, I want to have a flashbang grenade. I think however that Thunder could have used a different niche in order to work with this. Instead they introduced a new LMG, which was not up to par, and a bunch of boring statistics for an Assault class.

(Reddeadcap) #6

@Watsyurdeal Not really, he originally has had a move speed that matched 170 health why his health was 160 on his steam release I do not know, Now that that is fixed for Thunder SD should take a look at Vasilli, Phantom and now Fragger as changes to their health hasn’t has a change to their movement speed.
(Is the person in charge of movement speed changes asleep?)

I’ve mentioned a bunch of times in the past that the concussion grenade’s concussive effect should’ve stayed, reducing of outright locking mouse movement based on how close one is to the center of the blast, apparently having an effect that leaves a player vulnerable is a bad idea for an ability who’s purpose is just that…

The old blurred and grayed vision were a decent disorienting effect vision wise, But I can’t wait to see the posts about people saying they’ll suffer from cataracts thanks to Thunder just like his they did about how wrist hurting it was to fight the sluggish controls back in the day.

@SzGamer227 Yes but the likelihood of Thunder flashing himself increases with each shorter fuse time, if they were the original conc grenades one would have to worry about being inside the blast radius, with his original K-151 Thunder could shoot at concussed enemies from a safe distance rather than the spit-wad launched that is the mk46.