Redeye's Smoke in Regards to Enemy and Ally Obstruction

(Volexen) #1

I’ve been playing Redeye quite a bit due to the rotation and plan to get him, but I’ve noticed a couple of problems when utilising his smoke grenade, this is my own opinion and if anyone has anything to add post below and I will try to update, edit, and reply to this thread as often as I can remember to.

Enemy Dissuasion and Disadvantaging - as it turns out while within the smoke practically the shapes of both players and objects in it is visible, due to this en enemy players will often rush the smoke to shoot or melee anybody inside it making it useless against large groups of opponents as a form of cover for those carrying out objectives or other tasks.

No Ally to Enemy Differences - Simply put, the smoke is the same regardless of whether it is a friendly or enemy player inside or out making it an obstruction for both parties with the exception of Redeyes themselves.

So my opinion on how to fix these issues are as follows:
For the interior - Increase the density of the smoke while inside for enemies and add an screen filter when exiting the smoke this way rushing into/through the smoke would be not as effective as it is now (think of it as a mist where you couldn’t see your hand even if you put it up to your nose). In regards to allies the interior of the smoke should remain the same or be a bit clearer than what it is currently.
For the exterior - the possible function of allies being able to see outlines of enemies that are close to its edge/inside, these outlines would be very subtle, after all that’s mainly Redeye’s job with the use of the IR vision.

Like I said before this is my opinion but I’d like to hear your point of views on anything I have or haven’t mentioned here.

*Slight edit on the 22nd of November 2015 (Timezone : GMT +9:30) to increase clarity if more clarification is still needed let me know below.

(Volexen) #2

*Reserved

(bizarreRectangle) #3

I think reducing the density for an ally’s view will be good, but not completely because it’s still smoke. Rushing through the smoke isn’t that much of a problem. Most people are a bit wary, if they are that keen to try and rush in you can take advantage of them and shoot them in their blindness.

I’d also like it to be harder to see while inside the smoke, probably just increase the density or something.

(Volexen) #4

@bizarreRectangle Thanks for your input. I haven’t really noticed players, particularly above level 6 or so, to be wary of rushing smokes, especially if they’re playing fast moving mercs like Proxy.

(Drcipres) #5

I made a post about Red eye´s smoke and what I suggest was disable hitmarkers while in the smoking and also someone told me that might be a good idea to instead of showing a little triangle in the enemy´s head while spotted with redeye, mark the outlines of the enemy, so your team can land headshoots in you block their line of sight, and to change a bit the spotting ability of redeye from the spotting ability of vassili

(Volexen) #6

@Drcipres Yeah I think that would also be really good features, getting tired of hit marker tracked in smokes just to die before I can get a good amount of shots out. The body outline, and triangle on the head are also a good ideas, helps your teammates make more use of hiding in or behind the smoke. They would probably need to disappear if obstructed by another Redeye’s smoke or object however, I can imagine just shooting a wall trying to kill a spotted enemy, as the markers remain the same size no matter your distance from them.

(bizarreRectangle) #7

No hit markers now since the CW update. It’s mainly the stupid ones that rush into smoke. Like I said you can take advantage of them, and since they’re level 6 they’ll be easier to kill. I feel you don’t triangles when allies will get a decent view through the smoke.

Even now red eye is good and does his job. Just be careful not to block your team’s vision. Best way is not to use the smoke as a screen to protect yourself, it could be bad for you since enemies will just see a puff of cloud. They’ll know to avoid it, plus your team will be pissed.

(Volexen) #8

@bizarreRectangle I agree on that last point, I often use the smoke to block of choke points that enemies need to move through or to block vantage points, smoking myself, unless it’s to do an objective, seems stupid. At the same time though, making these changes or adding some of the features Drcipres mentioned would allow for more uses for smokes without impeding allies as much.

(bizarreRectangle) #9

Why would you need changes for smoke not to impede allies if they can see through it? What you said doesn’t really add up.

(Volexen) #10

@bizzareRectangle Ah sorry about, that missed some detailing of my post. I meant to say that a change to the smoke that made it less impeding to allies, would make it more useful in situations, for example, a corridor where both parties are in a fire fight.

I think you also didn’t understand something I said in my initial post, but that is partly my fault as well, going to clean up my post after posting this.

I didn’t mean to suggest being able to see through the smoke from the outside, only the inside of the smoke would be as light, or lighter, than it is currently for allies, and thicker for enemies. The exterior would remain the same for both parties, with the exception of making allies being able to see very subtle outlines of enemies that are extremely close to it’s edge, as the IR vision is mainly for enemy detection through smokes.

(GottaBeGreg) #11

Once again I move in from another discussion similar to the previous. Redeyes smoke is not area denial. The smoke is not meant to discourage people from running through it as much as it is to deny lines of sight. Small and fast mercs who see smoke blocking their way will simply run through it. However, if you place your smokes right, eg in a sniper spot, on a turret, blocking a long range of sight that an enemy sniper is picking your team off with, then you dont need all of these things. The outline is massively over the top and I believe it would greatly unbalance the character, as his current state is actually extremely powerful. The in smoke effects are not even suiting to Redeyes playstyle and and also I believe the current risk of impeding your team balances out how much of an incredible asset he can be. Smoke placement currently requires smart and thinking while on the go. How will this smoke affect my team, how will it affect the enemy team, how will it help me? These are all things a good Redeye is thinking and if it becomes a simple throw it down the longest range of sight and sit there shaping outlines for your team to shoot at grenade, then every team ever is going to need Redeye in order to counter himself, as not having one would put you at a massive disadvantage.

Like I said. This is cover, not area denial. You are throwing this in a medium to close range from the enemies, not at their feet. As such you shouldn’t even need to worry about what the inside of the smoke looks like IF YOU PLAY IT RIGHT. So sit back, chill in your smoke and pop heads from a safe distance.

(gg2ez) #12

I don’t care about what smoke does to enemies, so long as it hinders friendlies less.

I was playing a match on Underground a couple of hours ago. I was defending the final objective when all of a sudden, smart guy teammate decided it would be a good idea to smoke me without warning. It’s pretty hard to stop people from planting C4 when you can’t f**king see them do it.

(bizarreRectangle) #13

Smoke is good right now, @GottaBeGreg has a good point and it makes sense. Only change I think might be needed is just allow friendlies to see through the smoke (not entirely, it would still be a bit foggy). It’s a change that wouldn’t hurt and smoke could still operate the same way against enemies.

(Volexen) #14

@bizarreRectangle Yeah, after reading through his post I would also agree with that statement. The thread will probably stay open if anyone else comes along to add something to the discussion, unless a mod feels it should be closed, but for now I think I can agree with what both you and @GottaBeGreg have said.

(bizarreRectangle) #15

Not much to say except I agree at this point. Cool!