Redeye's smoke and IR

(Anderskr) #1

Hey, I am Anders from The Hero Organization [HERO]. I main sniper/secondary dps for the team, playing mostly aimee and redeye.

Redeye is currently a very problematic merc from a design perspective. It is never fun fighting a guy that can be essentially invisible using the combination of smoke and IR goggles. As of now, redeye has 3 small lasers from his eye that are visible through the smoke when the IR is active. However, it is almost impossible to spot in combat, asking around in my team and also some fE guys and non of them have even noticed this feature, despite having fought against redeyes for hundreds of matches.

I think it would be interesting to make the eye more visible for people he is looking directly at when his IR is enabled. I think the cone where the eye is more visible from should be around 2-5 degrees wide, so that it is only the enemies he is directly engaging that can see him.

This would do several things. It would make it feel more fair to fight against the redeye by allowing you to fight back when he is shooting at you through the smoke whilst still protecting the redeye from crossfire. It would also make it so that smokes are more about concealing your teammates, instead of just being for self defense.

(FireWorks) #2

Anders :smiley:

Finally made your way into the forums, welcome! :slight_smile:

I guess SD was pretty aware of what you state about the invisiblity. As you already know, the “insert bullets here” sign got shut down pretty early in the lifetime of Redeye. He had a couple buffs since then and is now a pretty “strong” merc. Especially with the PDP. cough

Bringing the signature red eye back in the way you describe with just a small cone might be interesting. He would not catch fire from the whole server but just from his targets. Sounds reasonable considering the 5sec spotting buff he received in the meantime.

Not sure how easy it is to code such a mechanic out. Making Redeye Redeye again might be worth it, though:)

Again, welcome to the forums, good to see some newer comp ppl making it here and bringing fresh blood

(ostmustis) #3

I know its there but I can never see it and I would like it more if red eye wouldnt be able to see through the smoke himself.

the “you cant fight back” edge red eye has against other snipers other snipers have against all others non-snipers :frowning:

(Nail) #4

so, OP wan’ts redeye to be only one visible through smoke, and 2nd one want’s IR gone, doesn’t seem reasonable to me, kinda defeats his purpose

(FireWorks) #5

I think there is a misunderstanding… Who said, IR should be gone?

(Nail) #6

uh, dis guy

[QUOTE=ostmustis;552950] I would like it more if red eye wouldnt be able to see through the smoke himself.

:([/QUOTE]

(FireWorks) #7

Doh, rhethorical question fail. Thought you meant me by second.

To pick up the discussion again. Bringing some visibility to the target (and just the target) and allowing to return fire sounds reasonable, no? Doesnt have to kill the whole point Redeye is about…

On a more general note on snipers:
In a discord discussion it was also mentionend to turn up the red highlighting depending on distance. So, you dont get fully surprised by the couple pixels you see sitting behind that wall.

You could also make this redeye cone feature a general thing for snipers with the classic lense flare in the distance when being aimed at.

(Anderskr) #8

Fireworks, I think I’d prefer not to have the classic sniper glare for all snipers, as it feels better firing at silluhettes of enemies instead of trying to aim at the center of a white lense flare. Making enemy snipers being more red overall at a distance would be nice though, as it is always frustrating when you fight and don’t realize there has been a sniper just chilling in the background for a good second lining up a shot. I remember back when sparks was a threat at range, she was incredibly hard to see if she only exposed her head with a white background.

I want the guy redeye is aiming at to be able to see the redeye if IR is enabled. It would still protect redeye from being shot by other players, but the guy he is fighting would be able to fight back. I think it would also look really cool with the red glare in the smoke :slight_smile:

(KeMoN) #9

I never play sniper as I’m really bad in this class, but I honestly wouldn’t increase the red glow of snipers. This effect should merely help to distinguish friend from foe.

Having snipers more visible is seriously (and unnecessarily) nerfing them imo. Also with the game being so fast-paced the good snipers aren’t the ones camping. The good ones are running around in my experience. If a sniper is staying in one spot and just going to cover and popping up again it is incredibly easy to clear him with your every-day rifle.

I like the idea of making Redeye more visible only to those who he is fighting, however I’m not sure if it is needed. You don’t see Thunder through the concussion grenade when it hit you either.

The point of this game is that you need team-play. You can’t counter each merc with every other merc. As Aura you don’t go head-to-head with a Rhino, you wait for your Fragger/Thunder or other high HP merc to take him and then support your teammate with your healingstation.
If there is a sniper in the distance you don’t counter it with a slow-ass Rhino who only has short distance weaponry.
If there is a spot with smoke in the distance, then maybe the clever thing to do is to not run against it in a straight line and wonder why your squishy 90HP merc is dead instantly. Maybe the clever thing is to wait for a countersniper or an AoE dmg teammate, who can drop some arty, molotov or some nades in the smoke area.

I for myself would appreciate it if SD kept diversity between the mercs as high as possible. The fact that everyone can repair/arm/defuse is already blurring out the percs of a special merc class. I usually main Proxy or Aura because I prefer speed over being tanky. I’m absolutely squishy and I don’t want and should not be able to counter Tanks head on. I rely on my teammates to do that and they rely on me to speed through openings and do objectives or support fallen teammates while they spray havoc out of their MGs to cover me doing that.

Just my 2 cents.

(Nail) #10

“I can’t hero, everything is OP”
kids, sheesh

(FireWorks) #11

[QUOTE=Nail;553007]“I can’t hero, everything is OP”
kids, sheesh[/QUOTE]

Kinda funny how you got no idea who youre talking to.

He is the guy who owned house with redeye and aimee in the recent cups, along with Zuppehw.

Now, hush old man.

(alphabeta) #12

I agree with a lot of these comments. The smoke SHOULD be used to allow your teammates to plant/defuse/repair. But never is because the Redeye used it to cover himself.

(Szakalot) #13

RedEye was fine before his smoke got a ridiculous amount of buffs, and his infrared vision got super long. Back in the day when IR goggles lasted 5-6 seconds it was actually quite well balanced. RedEye can hide in smoke to get a temporary advantage, but at best he was able to spot people at the beginning, and if used sparingly, at the end of the smoke lifecycle.

At the moment goggles are very forgiving, especially considering how spotting is easier and lasts longer. RedEye can basically always turn it on for 1-2 seconds and spot half the enemy team. Plus the smoke has a very short cooldown.

Imo smoke could suffer a small cooldown nerf and goggles should be much shorter. Either that or increase the initial cooldown cost (i think its 2sec now) to something like 4sec, to prevent goggle spamming and insta spotting any new opponent.

edit: tldr - it is not RedEye’s hiding-in-smoke ability thats OP, its the extremely liberal use of it.

(x3onn) #14

I like Anders’s idea making RedEye somewhat visible throught his smoke when he has his IR googles on. Anders is most likely the guy you want to listen to. Very smart guy and top 3 sniper player in the game easily.

Also I think the duration of the smoke should go down by 30-40%, it’s way too long right now. And maybe revert the durability buff you gave the smoke in some patch so it can be destroyed. Right now only way to destroy it effectively is Skyhammer or Arty airstrikes which is not enough imo. Then nerfing duration of IR googles by 2-3 seconds would be nice change aswell. :slight_smile:

(Szakalot) #15

[QUOTE=x3onn;553015]I like Anders’s idea making RedEye somewhat visible throught his smoke when he has his IR googles on. Anders is most likely the guy you want to listen to. Very smart guy and top 3 sniper player in the game easily.

Also I think the duration of the smoke should go down by 30-40%, it’s way too long right now. And maybe revert the durability buff you gave the smoke in some patch so it can be destroyed. Right now only way to destroy it effectively is Skyhammer or Arty airstrikes which is not enough imo. Then nerfing duration of IR googles by 2-3 seconds would be nice change aswell. :)[/QUOTE]

you mention 4 different nerfs here. maybe its not the best approach to nerf everything back to where it was before the buffs?

(x3onn) #16

Yeah might be true, but making him more visible with IR googles and reducing smoke duration would be nice first steps.
Nerfing PDP more would be wrong choice since it’s only worth to play with RedEye anymore because of the smoke.

(Nail) #17

[QUOTE=FireWorks;553008]Kinda funny how you got no idea who youre talking to.

He is the guy who owned house with redeye and aimee in the recent cups, along with Zuppehw.

Now, hush old man.[/QUOTE]

meh, who cares ?, if you can’t counter a hidey without having a red light to make them visable, you lose

(Mustang) #18

Urr no thanks, we tried that already and it was BS, right now is basically the sweet spot.

However +1 to Anderskr’s anti smoke camping suggestion.

(Nail) #19

[QUOTE=Anderskr;552999]Fireworks, I think I’d prefer not to have the classic sniper glare for all snipers, as it feels better firing at silluhettes of enemies instead of trying to aim at the center of a white lense flare. Making enemy snipers being more red overall at a distance would be nice though, as it is always frustrating when you fight and don’t realize there has been a sniper just chilling in the background for a good second lining up a shot. I remember back when sparks was a threat at range, she was incredibly hard to see if she only exposed her head with a white background.

I want the guy redeye is aiming at to be able to see the redeye if IR is enabled. It would still protect redeye from being shot by other players, but the guy he is fighting would be able to fight back. I think it would also look really cool with the red glare in the smoke :)[/QUOTE]

you’re wrong, sorry, you want to take away his ability, die or move, those are your choices

(BioSnark) #20

Sounds like an interesting idea. Smoke IR is damage immunity on cooldown. Doesn’t add anything fun to the game. It would be nice if it were made a team-focused ability.