Redeye: Hard To Use And Low Killing Potential

(omegaskorpion) #1

Ever since i bought the Redeye (with hard earn credits of cource), he was mostly disapointment from the beginning.

Now after few buffs the abilities are in pretty good spot.
However…

He is hard to use, thanks to weapons that are crap.

Dreissar: mostly crap, same dps as M4 but only in paper as it is semiauto rifle.
Grandeur: Crap, as it has real big recoil while aiming and bad sights. The mag size is also low.
PDP: No use in close range, but is only good redeye weapon in long range.

Now all these weapons also have one thing common: they have inconsistant damage, sometimes they deal less damage than they should in close range body shots, grandeur dealing 35-39 while it should deal 40 damage and Dreissar dealing 23-24 damage while it should do 26. PDP also suffers from this and this is noticeable while shooting squishy mercs like aura, sparks, kira and proxy. It also pains when you shoot 120hp merc 3 times with grandeur only to notice that he/she still has 10hp left.

Now obliviusly the main weapons need fixing and developers already said that the Grandeur and Dreissar will receive Red Dot Sights. (hopefully better than the Bishlock and Stark sights…)
PDP is in hard spot to balance as Vasilli and Redeye use it. However its more usefull to vasilli as he still has smg to use in close range while redeye has nothing outside pistol.

Solution?

Well my solution would be that Redeye should get access to secondary smg/machinepistols. As otherwise he is too weak in close quaters. And overal not that versatile.

“What about the dreissar?”
Well its not the best weapon in close range, as it has low fire rate. It also does not help that player needs minium 5 shots to body to kill most mercs so ammo is also issue without support.
(the support always have ammo for their dreissar but redeye does not)

Now the secondary smg is not the best weapon either, they are good but still need a lot of fixing and even buffing a little bit.
(as they need so much ammo to kill a merc, they all need mag buff and Tolem needs fire rate buff. Also if you ask why should secondary weapon like this get a buff: its because these weapons are meant for mercs that dont have primary to use in medium/long range or in snipers case, close range)

However they would bring some more killing power for the Redeye in close quaters and it would work realy well in the smoke. The current pistols are just too bad to use (M9 is the only good pistol really, Simeon is servisable as others lack mag size, accuracy or damage)

This would let the primary redeye weapons “mostly” untouched in close quaters power as he gets better secondary.
However to balance things out, he could have 10hp less if he gets better secondaries.

Also giving one hit gib against downed enemies for Grandeur and PDP would help A lot.

Other solutions?

(bizarreRectangle) #2

Learn to use the weapons, you’ll be denying that you ever complained about them. They are all good weapons.

I do agree about the inconsistent damage. It mostly effects the grandeur since you hip fire with it, dreiss is fast firing and pdp is accurate. Let the grandeur do a set 40 damage and it’ll be much less frustrating to use.

Red eye can be used cqc but that’s not where he shines. If you want him to be good at cqc, mid range and long range, you’ll have an op red eye.

(omegaskorpion) #3

[quote=“bizarreRectangle;117573”]Learn to use the weapons, you’ll be denying that you ever complained about them. They are all good weapons.

I do agree about the inconsistent damage. It mostly effects the grandeur since you hip fire with it, dreiss is fast firing and pdp is accurate. Let the grandeur do a set 40 damage and it’ll be much less frustrating to use.

Red eye can be used cqc but that’s not where he shines. If you want him to be good at cqc, mid range and long range, you’ll have an op red eye.[/quote]

The thing is, Most maps are very closed. merc like vasilly can deal both closed and open maps, redeye cant, even though hes ability would be really useful in close range and closed spaces.

His weapons are inconsistant, high recoiling and low dps, Mostly meant for long range but they still cant hit thanks to that recoil, DMD is great at distance, but then player loses all the close range protection.

The Dreissar is not in good spot anyway right now, most of the people prefer burst rifles over it because they can 1 burst kill if shot in to head (up to 100hp enemies)
Redeye in other hand does not have 1 shot head shot weapons unlike vassili (which also can still fight in close quaters mind you)

Its also annoying that merc that has ability that would benefit in close range does not have weapons that benefit in close range.

I have learned to control the Grandeur in some extend, still its annoying to fight bunny hopping shotgun mercs that come to shotgun range from that lond range if i didnt manage to hit all the shots OR the Grandeur did not do the right amouth of damage.

Dreissar would be the ideal medium range gun but its still way too broken after the fire rate nerf.

(3N1GM4) #4

[quote=“omegaskorpion;117581”][quote=“bizarreRectangle;117573”]Learn to use the weapons, you’ll be denying that you ever complained about them. They are all good weapons.

I do agree about the inconsistent damage. It mostly effects the grandeur since you hip fire with it, dreiss is fast firing and pdp is accurate. Let the grandeur do a set 40 damage and it’ll be much less frustrating to use.

Red eye can be used cqc but that’s not where he shines. If you want him to be good at cqc, mid range and long range, you’ll have an op red eye.[/quote]

The thing is, Most maps are very closed. merc like vasilly can deal both closed and open maps, redeye cant, even though hes ability would be really useful in close range and closed spaces.

His weapons are inconsistant, high recoiling and low dps, Mostly meant for long range but they still cant hit thanks to that recoil, DMD is great at distance, but then player loses all the close range protection.

The Dreissar is not in good spot anyway right now, most of the people prefer burst rifles over it because they can 1 burst kill if shot in to head (up to 100hp enemies)
Redeye in other hand does not have 1 shot head shot weapons unlike vassili (which also can still fight in close quaters mind you)

Its also annoying that merc that has ability that would benefit in close range does not have weapons that benefit in close range.

I have learned to control the Grandeur in some extend, still its annoying to fight bunny hopping shotgun mercs that come to shotgun range from that lond range if i didnt manage to hit all the shots OR the Grandeur did not do the right amouth of damage.

Dreissar would be the ideal medium range gun but its still way too broken after the fire rate nerf.[/quote]

Not every merc will be good at every map. Thats the whole point of changing out mercs between each map…

(Gung-ho) #5

Redeye is very strong and has great killing potential. If you are not performing well with him then you need you simply need to get better.

(neverplayseriou) #6

First of all it’s the pdp, second of all go watch a dbn cup and say that redeye has low killing potential.

(capriRocket) #7

cant find anyone playing him, link?

(SaulWolfden) #8

The Dreiss is his cqc weapon, once you use it enough you more consistently get kills in cqc. Dreiss = Short - Medium range, GSR = Medium to long range (though can work in shorter ranges if you get a headshot on the target first), PDP = Long range

(VincentRJaeger) #9

cant find anyone playing him, link?[/quote]

Skipped forward to the actual game.

Bam. Mister X as RedEye. - I think that’s the video everyone speaks about atleast.

(WaffleMonster) #10

pdp redeye is ridiculously strong atm and is getting alot of use at competitive level. Once you get used to it, it is surprisingly good close up as well as at long range.

(omegaskorpion) #11

The Thing is.

While not every merc is supposed to be in every scenario, The devs did say that the Arty and Kira are propably going to get indoors ability, which means that they will be more useful in indoors.

“what does that have to do with anything?”

Well it just shows that all mercs still are meant to atleast be usable in most scenarios but not in all.

Rhino is not supposed to be good in range, but with minigun burst fire he can deal good amouth of damage in range.

Vassilli is supposed to be long range merc, yet he still hase close range weapon so he can fight in smaller areas.

Proxy and Fletcher are meant to be close range mercs, yet they have secondaries to deal with longer ranges (and have loadout cards with smg)

Aura is mostly meant to be defensive merc, yet she can become highly offencive with shotgun or smg use.

Fire Supports are good mostly in all ranges.

Medics can be used in close to midlong range.

Phantom can be used in close to midlong range.

Yet Redeye is kinda mixed place here.
Grandeur is supposed to be his thumb card in all ranges, but in range its hard to use thanks to the sights and recoil (hopefully fixed with Red Dot), in close range its quessing where the shot will land after 3 shot.

PDP is his long range weapon, but then player realy has nothing in close range, pistols outside M9 are crap. Using kukri in close quaters is high risk, even more if enemy has shotgun or has good aim.

Dreissar i would personaly use… if they didnt nerfed the fire rate… Now its more mid range gun and has poor usability in close range. And ammo is also issue with Dreissar as it takes 5 shots or 3 head shots to kill 120hp mercs so missing any of the shots reduces overal ammo a lot.

Ok. Lets say that im not that good with redeye. But how many people do you see using redeye anyway?
The ability is good in closed space, but merc is used in long range.
The ability blocks allies vision, making it more annoying than useful.
Redeye does worse what Vassilli does better
Redeye is supposed to be designated marksman, yet Vassilli can already do that job if he uses PDP.
Redeye inst that versatile overall compared to others.

Im asking better seconadry so he can be bit more versatile, rather than locked to be in medium range.

Now granted, not every merc is supposed to be easy to use, but playing Redeye is more hardcore mode since the limited use.

And there is realy not many times i ever see Redeye in team.
Mostly when you see them, they are in the bottom of the scoreboard.
Now when i rarely see players that did manage to get to the top with Redeye, they earned it.

Now overal im asking other ideas, other than the better secondaries.

(omegaskorpion) #12

I do see alot PDP redeyes, but they are only good at range and die easily if player closes the gap.

If player uses PDP with Vasilli, they atleast give fight because better secondary weapon.

(capriRocket) #13

redeye works in comp cause hes playing a role and others play their role.
his smoke is an advantage over vasili in the way that he can peek more safely.
he works in pubs on defense but you cannot carry with him and push the obj.

if he doesnt get a way to fight close range he will remain a niche merc, which i dont really care about.

(omegaskorpion) #14

[quote=“capriRocket;117796”]redeye works in comp cause hes playing a role and others play their role.
his smoke is an advantage over vasili in the way that he can peek more safely.
he works in pubs on defense but you cannot carry with him and push the obj.

if he doesnt get a way to fight close range he will remain a niche merc, which i dont really care about.[/quote]

Fair, but every time redeye puts that smoke and any enemy sees that there are bullets coming out of that smoke, they will nuke the smoke point and everything behind it.

Atleast with vassilli you can detect people trough walls and you know all their movement.
You can one shot most of the mercs with him and if they get too close you can still kill them.

Redeye can only oneshot 80hp mercs with Grandeur and one shot 90hp mercs with PDP.
And can only defend himself with only few weapons in close range if he hapens to have the right loadout.

Even worse to the redeye is that the PDP is the ONLY good weapon he can use, because its not broken unlike the others. (well outside the random damage reduction but you get the point)

(capriRocket) #15

you dont need to tell me, im not defending him.
i got about 5h on him and fail to see any reason to play him on a pub.
i see some use when things are a bit more tactical but i dont consider him as one of the better mercs.

i also have to say that this match wasnt very high level.

(WaffleMonster) #16

For starters, the pdp is alot stronger at close ranges than most people realise. If you’ve watched the top redeye players, they are very aggressive and are comfortable using the pdp up close.

He is far better than pdp vassily because of his smoke. Vast majority of players I see on public use the smoke completely wrong. One of the best ways to use the smoke is to smoke yourself, not the enemys. This makes you practically impossible to be countersniped by vassily or sparks and does not hinder your team in anyway.

The reason you might see soo many bad redeyes on public is because just like any other fps game i have ever played, the sniper class is a noob magnet. Snipers require a certain playstyle and require you to land your shots to be effective, both of which noobs cannot do and that’s why people are so bad with him (not because he is a poor merc).

(omegaskorpion) #17

[quote=“WaffleMonster;117819”][quote=“omegaskorpion;117787”]

PDP is his long range weapon, but then player realy has nothing in close range, pistols outside M9 are crap. Using kukri in close quaters is high risk, even more if enemy has shotgun or has good aim.

Ok. Lets say that im not that good with redeye. But how many people do you see using redeye anyway?
The ability is good in closed space, but merc is used in long range.
The ability blocks allies vision, making it more annoying than useful.
Redeye does worse what Vassilli does better
Redeye is supposed to be designated marksman, yet Vassilli can already do that job if he uses PDP.
Redeye inst that versatile overall compared to others.

And there is realy not many times i ever see Redeye in team.
Mostly when you see them, they are in the bottom of the scoreboard.
Now when i rarely see players that did manage to get to the top with Redeye, they earned it.

[/quote]

For starters, the pdp is alot stronger at close ranges than most people realise. If you’ve watched the top redeye players, they are very aggressive and are comfortable using the pdp up close.

He is far better than pdp vassily because of his smoke. Vast majority of players I see on public use the smoke completely wrong. One of the best ways to use the smoke is to smoke yourself, not the enemys. This makes you practically impossible to be countersniped by vassily or sparks and does not hinder your team in anyway.

The reason you might see soo many bad redeyes on public is because just like any other fps game i have ever played, the sniper class is a noob magnet. Snipers require a certain playstyle and require you to land your shots to be effective, both of which noobs cannot do and that’s why people are so bad with him (not because he is a poor merc).[/quote]

The thing is, when player smokes him self, everyone knows there is redeye, naders and other mass destruction mercs will bomb the smoke and also just in case everything behind it.

PDP… i mean… what ever. Some Vassilies use it greatly in close range but when its all said and done you will deal more damage with a knife than PDP in close range if you keep moving.
(that being said you dont want to see proxy with quikslash augment running around)

Redeyes abilities are good, realy good if usen correctly. You can block the vision of the LMG post and then snipe the user. You can cover team mates and even blind enemy.

But it all comes to the weapons. Hes weapons wont syncronize.

His unique sucks, dreissar is too slow and PDP is the Long range weapon and even if someone can master it in close range, you bet that someone that has been trainin his smg or shotgun skills will take the upper hand.

I dont say that better secoandary is magic solution for all problems, its not.
But it would atleast benefit agressive Redeye players and give him someting to use in close quaters.

There are still better solutions to balance him… and nobody here seems to have any ideas how other than saying that use the PDP or learn to use Grandeur (which still sucks to use) or Dreissar (which also sucks compared to burst rifles or PDP)

(WaffleMonster) #18

I agree that the dreiss needs buffing and the grandeur needs a sight.

When it comes down to using explosives against smoke, the redeye is at an advantage because an explosive merc such as nader has to expose herself, the only way in which you will lose in that situation is if you miss most of your shots. The smokes cooldown is super short so it doesn’t really matter if the enemy start wasting explosives on it and not on killing your friendlies.It’s practically impossible to counter a good redeye with the pdp.

(omegaskorpion) #19

[quote=“WaffleMonster;117908”]I agree that the dreiss needs buffing and the grandeur needs a sight.

When it comes down to using explosives against smoke, the redeye is at an advantage because an explosive merc such as nader has to expose herself, the only way in which you will lose in that situation is if you miss most of your shots. The smokes cooldown is super short so it doesn’t really matter if the enemy start wasting explosives on it and not on killing your friendlies.It’s practically impossible to counter a good redeye with the pdp.[/quote]

Good point.

However this works only if the Redeye has some good distance, like in shapel or in Railtracks. If the redeye does not have the distance he will get rushed by anything faster than him and then the PDP power drops a lot in the closer distance.

It would improve the PDP if it had similar hip accuracy as the Grandeur. That Could be better solution than better secondary, but only in case of PDP.

(WaffleMonster) #20

the PDP is already borderline OP, it shouldn’t be buffed in any form. Good positioning will significantly help against getting rushed and at the end of the day it is a sniper rifle. Making the pdp like the grandeur would just limit diversity in weapons which is already and issue in this game. I think what you are really looking for is the grandeur with a better sight.