Reconsider Female Characters!

(tokamak) #321

Just because it’s a game it doesn’t mean anything goes. The biggest nonsense can be proposed for games under the excuse of ‘it’s not real’.

(BioSnark) #322

At the same time, arguing for realistic demographics isn’t terribly convincing in a game where everyone’s chewing steroids for breakfast, able to survive a round to the head, and popping gun turrets out of thin air.

Edit:

If that is true, you can’t possibly know if that is by nature or social indoctrination. And, almost regardless of that question, social indoctrination is incredibly powerful and malleable if you consider that people, yes, including women, can be persuaded to willingly go against all natural survival instinct and engage in suicidal attacks. With regard to your final jibe, you might consider that everyone is brainwashed (and possibly ‘designed’ to be so) by whatever social context they are in.

(Fayetal) #323

lol I like it :slight_smile: +1

(Senyin) #324

Sexy helps for whom?
Adding sexy females to serve as eyecandy for the male players (which is done 90% of the time) is sexist.

And PSG_Mud is the only one I understand in his argument, although I do not fully agree
because of his reasons behind it.
But I would be very against (killing) children in games, so why can’t someone else not be
against females in games for the same reason: immoral & unethical
It’s the only valid reason I have seen so far for being against females in games and the only one I can somewhat sympathize with.

The ‘psychologically weaker’ part he mentioned is certainly…interesting.
Made me laugh anyhow.

Oh yeah this made me raise a brow too:

Whats the reason for adding that bold part? =D

(Nail) #325

“I would also challenge any one of you to try to take or hurt a womans child, because there is nothing stronger, faster or more psychologically unfeeling than a woman protecting her young, IMO.”

Do you honestly think a father protecting his child won’t do the same ?
Hurt one of my kids and your life is over.

(tokamak) #326

Art direction and gameplay choices.

(Nail) #327

“I would also challenge any one of you to try to take or hurt a womans child, because there is nothing stronger, faster or more psychologically unfeeling than a woman protecting her young, IMO.”

Do you honestly think a father protecting his child won’t do the same ?
Hurt one of my kids and your life is over.

(tokamak) #328

[QUOTE=Senyin;207270]Sexy helps for whom?
Adding sexy females to serve as eyecandy for the male players (which is done 90% of the time) is sexist.[/QUOTE]

Now that’s just homophobe, some women also want sexy females as eye candy.

(BioSnark) #329

Which doesn’t alter how realistic the game is in those respects.

(CyburK) #330

a game where you shoot at women is more lightly to get higher pg rating.

(H0RSE) #331

maybe if they were innocent civilians, but I don’t think it would matter if the woman was just another model or skin for a player character/soldier in the battlefield.

All these real life “weaknesses” of women don’t mean jack in a game where a dude can play as a chick

Whats the reason for adding that bold part? =D

If female characters were implemented into the game, do you think ONLY women would play as them? My point was that men AND women would play as female avatars, so pointing out differences or “weaknesses” is moot, since it’s just a game, and the person behind the female avatar could be anyone.

(PSG_Mud) #332

[QUOTE=Fayetal;207228]I would like to see the proof that women are psychologically weaker, as opposed to different, that would be an interesting read I find.

I get the physical aspects of “weakness” however women can do some things better than men and men can do some things better than women.

[/QUOTE]Well, just by chance there is a few individuals who do not posses knowledge of why people do not compete with men in extremely physically demanding jobs.

One of the most obvious concerns regarding women in combat situations is the fact that it has been scientifically proven that female soldiers do not possess as much physical strength as their male counterparts. The female skeletal system is also less dense, and more prone to breakages. There is also concern that, in aviation, the female body is not as adept at handling the increased g-forces experienced by combat pilots.

In close combat environments, which fit the definition above, physical capabilities are as important as ever. Equipment and survival gear carried by today’s combat soldiers, including electronic weapons and ammunition, satellite communication devices, batteries, and water weigh 50-100 pounds—a burden that is just as heavy as loads carried by Roman legionnaires in the days of Julius Caesar.

Modern body armor alone weighs 25 pounds. This weight is proportionately more difficult to carry by female soldiers who are, on average, shorter and smaller than men, with 45-50% less upper body strength and 25-30% less aerobic capacity, which is essential for endurance. Even in current non-combat training, women suffer debilitating bone stress fractures and other injuries at rates double those of men.

To summarize an enormous body of well-documented evidence produced by physiologists in the U.S. and Britain, in close combat women do not have an “equal opportunity” to survive, or to help fellow soldiers survive.

Opportunity vs. Obligation

This is just common sense, but not I am sure there are some individuals here who don’t know.

source
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/17/2/128
http://www.cmrlink.org/WomenInCombat.asp?DocID=237

Psychological problems with battle stress

By some estimates, as many as 40 percent of veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from TBI or PTSD. Last June, the VA reported almost 20,000 female military veterans from both wars have been diagnosed with mental disorders, including nearly 8,500 women diagnosed specifically with PTSD.

“Our nation’s female military personnel have distinguished themselves, every day, through their tremendous service in Iraq and Afghanistan,” says Warner. “However, a female veteran with combat-related stress, often after having been the only woman in her unit and after serving in a military system that still defines combat as a male-only activity, appears much more likely to suffer alone, and in silence, once they return home.”

Yet women have a much higher chance for mental illness, even when not engaging in warfare itself.
http://warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=NewsClips&ContentRecord_id=cf1c725e-03fe-4270-9b02-e2016cd5ae42&ContentType_id=5f9a18e6-6b7d-483f-b1b7-19d6af4c4c2c

How does one determine battle stress without battle? For sure there are methods for intelligent approach to this question, but they should be pursued very carefully. It may be that certain women are found equal or superior to the average male with regard to emotional stability in the face of violence. However, that proposition has yet to be demonstrated on anything approaching a general scale. I emphatically am not saying that women are uniformly giddy or unstable under duress. I am saying that there is evidence to suggest that the emotional constitution of women is basically different from that of men. Again, the research of Mlle. de Beauvoir appears illuminating:

Instability is strikingly characteristic of woman's organization in general... Irregularities in the endocrine secretions react on the sympathetic nervous system, and nervous and muscular control is uncertain. This lack in stability and control underlies woman's emotionalism, which is bound up with circulatory fluctuations-palpitation of the heart, blushing, and so forth-and on this account women are subject to such displays of agitation as tears, hysterical laughter, and nervous crises.

-Lieutenant Colonel Edd D. Wheeler (Ph.D., Emory University)
-Simone de Beauvoir(female scientist)

(Fayetal) #333

@nail I never said you or any other men wouldn’t, but women change in certain situations, that was my point really.

@mud I wasn’t arguing the physical and I stated that, Your best form of evidence there says women are different, which is what I also said. I do not agree that either male or female are weaker, only different and have skills in different areas, but that goes for all people.

I cba to argue tbh, I just wanted an opinion, which i also stated. I have lots of other things to say really but I do not think this is the arena to combat the issues at hand

@profane, Nice try, I get where you are coming from and agree with you.

(PSG_Mud) #334

Pretty sure I wasn’t speaking generally, rather specifically as I quote, “psychologically weaker when it comes to battle stress.”

(Profane) #335

Yeah, but what I see as sexy and what the average heterosexual dude sees as sexy are two very different things. I have yet to understand the appeal of Jessica Alba. Right over my head. Give me Michelle Rodriguez any day.

I vote all avatars be sexy and half-naked. That way we can all develop self-esteem issues AND the closeted gamers can have something to look at besides boring boobs. YEAH! Go equality!

So SD…will a few of those male character models be hot and half-naked? Cuz I might buy the game then. I don’t have any eye candy games, but I would so dig one. I’m thinking a face like Johnny Depp, a voice like Sam Elliot, and a body like The Rock. The Rock not-in-drag, that is. rubs chin Or maybe a body like Elliot Cowan. Oh yes! drool

(Apples) #336

FTW!!! I still want a tiny infraction @ SD, delay it in 6 monthes plz I’m trying to get a pub comp start in etqw!

Peace

(Profane) #337

[QUOTE=PSG_Mud;207298]Well, just by chance there is a few individuals who do not posses knowledge of why people do not compete with men in extremely physically demanding jobs.

This is just common sense, but not I am sure there are some individuals here who don’t know.

source
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/17/2/128
http://www.cmrlink.org/WomenInCombat.asp?DocID=237

Psychological problems with battle stress

Yet women have a much higher chance for mental illness, even when not engaging in warfare itself.
http://warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=NewsClips&ContentRecord_id=cf1c725e-03fe-4270-9b02-e2016cd5ae42&ContentType_id=5f9a18e6-6b7d-483f-b1b7-19d6af4c4c2c[/QUOTE]

Why are we even talking about women in the military when it is a recent phenomenon? It proves next to nothing because we don’t understand, yet, how women function in the military and whether or not the male/female ratio has an impact on stress levels in female soldiers, feelings of isolation, etc. It’s a lot more complicated than straight up warfare-related PTSD. As bad as being mortared is, it doesn’t help when your only designation as a female soldier is that of whore, bitch or dyke. And besides hearing that from women soldiers - I’ve had male soldiers tell me the same thing of female soldiers. Made for some nice arguments with my ex.

So, no. PTSD rates by gender do nothing for your argument. They would if the military was split evenly across genders.

Besides, most games have class systems. Some of the classes are support. Engineers, medical, etc. The military uses women in mostly support positions. Body armor would not necessarily be a factor in a support class (not in the game world, anyway). Now, if you’d said female avatars couldn’t be in the ‘Heavy’ class within Brink’s world, then sure. I could buy it.

(Stroggafier) #338

You might find it interesting to know about some of the recent studies published in German psych journays:

Study 1
Men’ phsiology changes when they see a beautiful woman. Men become very focussed, a part of their brain lights up that is associated with great pleasure (like a drug would do) Their heart rate increases, their noses flare, eyes bulge and jaws drop indicating hightened sensitivity to light, smell, taste and movement. Men externalize the event as it centres in their sensory areas of the brain. They appear dumber as a result; they fumble for words, stare, forget where they are. Indeed, the state might be likened to what a cat experiences when spotting a small bird. (And here you thought you were strange, when all it was is you being a man :wink: )

Women when they see a very attractive man (or another woman) have a very different reaction. They preen; brush their hair back, adjust their clothes, push up their bras or fix their makeup. Women internalize the event somewhere in the region between the frontal lobe and the medula. They become keenly aware of their posture, smell, and the effect they have on men. (Of course we all know that a woman knows how to use this to her advantage, don’t we :wink:)

Study 2
Apparently the life expectancy of men that stare at women’s breasts may be positively effected by adding as much as 5 years of longevity to some men’s lives. The study looked at the effects over a number of years (15). They postulated that the increased adrenaline, heart rate and other physical effects were the cause. They suggested that the best effects were from stares (or sum of stares) that occured for 20 minutes and that the regimen had to be repeated daily. The same effects were not observed in women ogglers. (Its a health thing, men :wink: )

Study 3
Apparently the y-chromosome is the fastest evolving chromosome in humans, say scientists finding more changes in this chromosome than all others. Ironically, to minimize blind effects, they followed the daughters of a blood line for the men, and the sons of a blood line for the women. Although one might be tempted to say that the men are more evolved, the study goes on to say specifically that this does not necessarily mean that men are more evolved then women. (Well they had to say that, didn’t they :wink:)

I should think these studies have some bearing on why sexy is good, without being sexist.

(Apples) #339

Profane, are you a woman? if so I love you and need pics, if you arent you are a freak and I wont talk xith you anymore

/sexist way

Who cares about military or whatever when its a freaking game?

/normal mode

Did you check my jon lajoie vidz?

/ad mod

I’m a pretty drunk man

/no mod Peace

(tokamak) #340

There are at least as many half naked/sexy men featuring as characters in games as there are sexy female characters.

If anything it’ll be the female characters who have some catching up to do. Go equality!