I’m not sure about random maps with the tournament: preset maps allow you to consider what deployment you wanted to use, though for most maps that still boiled down to involving Juan somehow.
But, with the patch in the works, let’s recap on the ideas: Some of you are pushing for no clone-army deployments, others are a little mixed on what point tier we should play the tournament on. Any of these opinions changed over the week?
I don’t think random maps is a good idea, I would prefer that the maps would be stated before the match, as done previously, Personally I don’t use clone-armies but don’t think they should be banned, anyone should be able to play with the team they feel more confortable with. In order to add more vaiarity I sujest 20 or 26 point matches. Not sure if the expansion maps should be included though, since if you don’t own one you wouldn’t be able to challenge someone into a match.
It was for that reason that stock maps were used in the last tournament.
I’m suggesting 20pt matches as well, but I think this next tournament will stay at 14 for simplicity’s sake.
I’m not a tournament player but I am a chump so I don’t know what I’m talking about.
All tournaments are flawed (perhaps “weighted” is a better term) in one way of another. What is the goal?
If I am challenged, I automatically know the map. Can’t change that without dev’s involvement. I can make map choice “fair” by pre-assigning the map. I can eliminate move order advantage by playing 2 matches, one from each side and allow ties.
If I want to go to the trouble, (shh, its a secret) I can determine the opposing squad and even the opponents first move, before I commit to a squad. Can’t change that either. I can make squad choice “more fair” by pre-assigning the squads. Same content both sides. Heck, even assign “under used” toons. Still can’t eliminate the peek cheat.
If the concern is that not every player has every toon (reasonable concern), pre-generate an few userid’s and ask the dev’s to populate them including capt rank to 7? 40? <n>?. PM the passwords back and forth from the moderator to the players. More work but “more fair”. Ties can be solved a number of ways. Experience gained in each match is one way but once again, more work.
Full disclosure: I don’t normally peek cheat although I have on occasion.
[QUOTE=Catnadian;445345]I’m not sure about random maps with the tournament: preset maps allow you to consider what deployment you wanted to use, though for most maps that still boiled down to involving Juan somehow.
But, with the patch in the works, let’s recap on the ideas: Some of you are pushing for no clone-army deployments, others are a little mixed on what point tier we should play the tournament on. Any of these opinions changed over the week?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? What is the problem with clones? Is there any kind of proof that clones ever gave any advantage to anyone? It is just an excuse for losers saying "i lost because my oponent used clones (not because I played bad myself of course)
Plus you make it like a crime against science, its not a clone, its an identical twin:)
I suppose I could bend on random, think it sure goes farther to keep odd squads from domination, plus it would make scheduling so much easier, as to maps as well, those without expans wouldn’t be excluded, but those with wouldn’t be hindered.
If you feel you have to put limits, how about any two per class, even if they are so called clones (cue scary music:))
I think 26 is more interesting, you could do a seperate tourney for each 14, 20, 26.
Oh, it would help the advantage of moving first, because you don’t know what map your playing at the barracks screen. The second player does know, however, what map it is ( talking random)
What I’m talking about is: there was some discussion about them in this thread and I wanted to see how people felt about it. Strongly, judging by your reply, and there are others who are fine with it, including myself, no matter my personal opinions on the strategy. It’ll have a place in the next tournament.
[QUOTE=Ciakgb;445494]Plus you make it like a crime against science, its not a clone, its an identical twin:)
I suppose I could bend on random, think it sure goes farther to keep odd squads from domination, plus it would make scheduling so much easier, as to maps as well, those without expans wouldn’t be excluded, but those with wouldn’t be hindered.
If you feel you have to put limits, how about any two per class, even if they are so called clones (cue scary music:))
I think 26 is more interesting, you could do a seperate tourney for each 14, 20, 26.[/QUOTE]
I feel like 26-point matches are the most interesting and the most fun, but 14 and 20 are generally the most accessible. Running three separate tournaments seems a bit… daunting, though I’d definitely consider it at some point.
The thing about random maps is the first player is stuck not knowing what map they’re going to get and how well it’ll go with their deployment, while the second player not only knows what map they’re fighting on, but can be that much more effective in choosing their deployment. Knowing what maps you have in advance mitigates this somewhat, since both players can keep whatever strategy they wish for it, adapt to their opponent over the course of the matches, things like that. We’d probably get a lot more ties if the tournament was just random maps, and that’d be… weird for the placement bracket.
Actually your ties come when both players know its old town and each bring all snipers…
Plus elsewhere people were all up in arms about how hard it was to go second…
Anyway, trying to show some flexibility, I would do way better knowing the maps–want to be fair to you guys:)
I remember that - I can understand where they’re coming from, but at the same time a lot of my victories are second-turn, and one could just as neatly argue the case for a second-turn advantage.
I remember my mirror-match placement round with tinker… once one of us was down a sniper, it was tense, but not a moment before then.
Going first, lets you mobilize your troops at will, allowing you to take more ground, when going second you have to analyze you opponents move and deploy your troops in the best way to counteract their move, it is true that going first creates a somehow advantage but this does not jeopardizes the match, I believe you have the same amount of probability to win regardless if you move first or second, the victory lies to whom holds the best strategy and decision making.
14 is your problem. Just for fun I did a bunch of 14s just now. Now I consider myself pretty creative when it comes to this game, yet these were the only decent squads I came up with…
You really are pushing people to the Juan. It’s a juan-ton-tomatoe and you’ll never get it in the grater…
I think 20 is the best option since it lies in the middle, adding more variety and allowing new players to fill the gap. Although, personally I believe 26 point games are the most entertaining, and perhaps making three tournaments, would be a solution to this debate, but that brings a lot of other problems, like more time, more planing etc.
Higher squad points keeps out the people who start and quit, sort of. 20 is a good compromise. It allows you to go 4 or 5 toon, a big lack in 14
my issue with 20 - 26 pt games is it will turn into an even more campy/empty move game. Anything over 14 is a 1 turn kill even if you are behind cover.
[QUOTE=Ciakgb;445578]14 is your problem. Just for fun I did a bunch of 14s just now. Now I consider myself pretty creative when it comes to this game, yet these were the only decent squads I came up with…
You really are pushing people to the Juan. It’s a juan-ton-tomatoe and you’ll never get it in the grater…[/QUOTE]
Ive been playing predominately 14s for the past few months and can confidently say that madame + famous daves would beat out those comps or madame and Kate. Juan is good but he cant move into a site for ****.
I don’t know, I think 14 is too limiting, you don’t have the option of going for more toons/less fire power. Not saying u can’t have an interesting 14 game or team. It’s just we know you r taking artillery:)
