-Quick little medic thought an discussion-

(tokamak) #41

I don’t think most people here are complaining about excessive self-healing being made more difficult. We all seem to agree that’s a very very good thing. But there are external effects that I don’t agree on.

Yes, agreed wholeheartedly.

I’d say that the HOT is too elegant a solution for a game like DB. Self-healing was the problem, not instant healing as a whole. It was instant healing that is responsible for very crazy and satisfying situations in SD games and I consider it along with other wacky mechanics an important part of SD’s signature game style.

I also see a problem with going by Echo on this one. Yes, Echo will register less self-heal and it will be seen as a success. But Echo won’t be able to provide statistics on the number of ‘wacky situations’ as far as I’m aware (I wouldn’t even be able to imagine where to start measuring such a thing).

So there’s a danger in creating a tangible success by destroying intangible value. That’s why I’d like to see a solution addressing self-healing specifically rather than one that changes healing across the board.

(BomBaKlaK) #42

yep nice way to explain what I also feel about this new medpacks, cause of this lack of reactivity, lot of “very crazy and satisfying situations” are just gone, the new mechanic slow down the gameplay.

(Breo) #43

A game without healthregen while it’s possible to selfheal for the medic class won’t work. Because it means the medics are always full health to multifrag the low health enemies from other classes.

(Kendle) #44

Except it did … RTCW

(Kl3ppy) #45

+1, I somehow dont like the speed the medic gets health from his own medpacks. I think slowing the health regen from own med packs would make the medic more vulnerable.

(.Chris.) #46

I think the medic is fine, I haven’t noticed any change in pace to the game since the changes to the med packs were made, the regen is pretty quick, I’d go as far to say in the time it takes to throw one pack and wait for full regen isn’t that far from the time it took the throw multiple med packs to achieve the same result and both instances usually mean retreating and taking cover.

(acQu) #47

Just thought about the following: i actually watched myself how much a self-healed during combat and it turns out that if i actually get away, noone can do anything and i will be back with full health in about 3 seconds if i do it right. Don’t know, maybe really put on my solution with the auto-injector and bring back old medic packs, as i see it has almost no effect now. It would only have effect if it were seperated aka health regen at a lower rate, but insta healing with med packs at +25 health :slight_smile:

EDIT

true that. It actually has no effect i think. You can work around and achieve almost the same results a different way.

(Runeforce) #48

But it has a profound negative effect. It discourages selfless healing further and reduces the medics synergy effect in keeping his team pushing forward. Of course it is still there, it is just less then before. The team medic got nerfed, along with the rambo medic.

(tokamak) #49

That. It’s a medic nerf across the board. The value the medic has to the team really shouldn’t have been nerfed like this. Not with the current lethality going on.

(acQu) #50

Absolutely. I think that the idea of ‘health over time’ is actually quite interesting (and something which naturally belongs to the medic i think), but connected to medic packs i strongly disagree.

Basically the way medic packs are right now (and partly were before because they healed over 50 hp i think) is that the healing over time will result in less packs thrown, but if used correctly it will heal your teammates if they stay out of the fight over that time frame. Imo this means again shrinking the game in possibilites and enlarging it once more in linearity.

(scre4m.) #51

healing over time has its pros as well as it has its cons.
I think the overall amount of healing teammates has increased since healing over time was introduced, while medic self heal decreased.

No idea if there might be any echo stats for this, but this is how I think things are going right now. ( unless ppl step on packs and jump out of cover instantly:mad:)
Also, dropping 3 health packs around a corner and a medic standing on them and building himself 150+ HP is something I dont like and doesnt work any more. Thats a big point for regen-packs imo.

So if devs anyway plan to have 4 sets/loadouts for each class, we should maybe just have both.
I think both packs have good influences as well as bad influences on the game.

(acQu) #52

Little W:ET stats:

[ul]
[li]medic had healing over time by default, other classes did not[/li][li]as a medic and at level 5 first aid skill i could throw 7 packs until my charge bar was down[/li][li]1 pack was 20 health[/li][li]Roughly 6 to 7 packs are needed to heal one mate[/li][/ul]

Mods did further extend the medic pack mechanics, these are vanilla stats. One positive side of these mods was that the packs actually were easier to throw at your teammates, since the flying curve was modified and you could throw more at them. I think this is the core problem of DB team healing.

I think this was an issue of DB pre-ptach, since medic pack healed incredible amounts of health there. I think the problem of teammate heal rate lies in the difficulty to reach your teammate.

(BTMPL) #53

It also still does work in Team Fortress 2 - the medic has a (IIRC) 6hp/s regen, and the healing mechanics only let him heal the other classes.

I’ve only just joined the Alpha, but will be playing medic exclusively as it always was my class. I kind of like the new mechanics, but would rather see it changed so that the regen wont stop while under fire but you can’t be under the influence of more than 1 medpack at any given time. This way the medic wont be much of a rambom and as the regen rate is slower than the rate of damag received.

Also, I would LOVE some way to know WHO is calling “need a medic”. Is there an indicator for that? I heven’t noticed. Maybe add an icon on the HUD (like the defend / attack / man down) or on the mini map? Right now all I know is that out there, somewhere, there is someone that needs a medic.

(Mustang) #54

I’ve been thinking that it would be more fun and strategical if regen didn’t stop on receiving damage, but rather on firing your own weapon.

Thoughts?

(tokamak) #55

Would be a tremendous buff to self-heal again. For healing others I like it.

We already came up with what I think is a far superior way of dealing with the medic. Anti however already declared that SD was happy with the way healing and the medic as a whole function so I guess we can lock this thread as well. Yeah I’m a bit annoyed.

(Raviolay) #56

What about having two packs for both ammo and health, one large and one “small” (the current health pack buffed, ammo packs nerffed no ammo stations ). As a medic or Field ops you can not Heal/Regen off the small packs you throw down your self. Only other players your team or the other, however you can throw down a large pack with a longer cool down separate from the small. This pack anyone, including the one who put it down can take health from it for a full heal/ammo refill, albeit you have to stand over it and take the ammo/health out of it like a objective.

This leaves you vulnerable however there is a risk reward element to it, you could even let engineers say booby trap large packs so when the opposing side take from it goes boom. Also you could make the heartbeat sensor notify your team mates if a large pack is boobytraped, this creates class synergy encourages forward team play. Then again wheels…

(Mustang) #57

[QUOTE=Raviolay;438412]What about having two packs for both ammo and health, one large and one “small” (the current health pack buffed, ammo packs nerffed no ammo stations ). As a medic or Field ops you can not Heal/Regen off the small packs you throw down your self. Only other players your team or the other, however you can throw down a large pack with a longer cool down separate from the small. This pack anyone, including the one who put it down can take health from it for a full heal/ammo refill, albeit you have to stand over it and take the ammo/health out of it like a objective.

This leaves you vulnerable however there is a risk reward element to it, you could even let engineers say booby trap large packs so when the opposing side take from it goes boom. Also you could make the heartbeat sensor notify your team mates if a large pack is boobytraped, this creates class synergy encourages forward team play. Then again wheels…[/QUOTE]
Sounds pretty similar to the portable ammo stations that are coming When It’s Ready™

(Raviolay) #58

So long as it’s not Valves idea of when it’s ready, I am happy with that.

(Volcano) #59

//youtu.be/0d6yBHDvKUw

listen to the wiseman that is Gaben

(Hundopercent) #60

[QUOTE=Anti;433601]Pretty sure I posted explanations of the system quite some before the patch, and the reason for it, but will do so again :slight_smile:

We saw a number of issues with packs as they were:

[ul]
[li]Medics were self healing during combat[/li][li]Medics mostly healed themselves and didn’t support their team[/li][li]When they did support the team the packs werent going far enough, one guy could hoover up four of them[/li][li]Healing mid combat with packs made weapons often feel inconsistent[/li][li]The system was leading to the average health pool of a team being quite low relative to weapon damage, made the game feel a bit too lethal and caused shorter duels[/li][/ul]

We felt this new system would address all of that. More packs to go around and potential to give more health, so better health pools and more support. Would also stop medics from being so selfish and healing mid fight (which made them the best front line class).

We think it’s actually worked pretty well and I imagine we’ll keep the system for some time longer before re-evaluating it.

I would agree with the general feedback though that we now miss a mid-combat Medic. It may be the case that we work this into another Medic load out on a future character, one with more obvious feedback on it so the enemy knows his target is being healed a little easier.[/QUOTE]

These changes may have helped your Echo tool but competitively it’s a step in the wrong direction. Accuracy of players is higher (in comp play), combat is at times more steady, what ends up happening is you never heal your teammate because a stray bullet or minor splash from a nade ends the heal. I often run out of packs and ammo, and people still need to be healed because they got knicked by spray/splash. That in combination with the instant gib bug, almost no revive protection, minimal damage, high spread, and lowest ammo. The class is over all below average. If it wasn’t for the higher end players you have in the alpha right now I doubt you would even see medics played much. The spread is enough to where I don’t even use my primary as often anymore, I use my secondary and use my CS strafe pattern because it makes it accurate enough to shoot. I don’t really think it fixed the selfish part too much either. I’m still stingy and selfish with my healthpacks, all I have to do is run behind a corner for a couple of seconds and most of my HP is back.

I know we’ve beat the snot out of this horse but you keep ignoring it. It’s time to fix the accuracy of these weapons, we’re not playing CS here…