questns [answd],pre-release, models and prefabs in general

(aaa3) #1

[note - a bit edited; aaa3.]
A./well i wasted 1 hour to search without result despite im quite good at searching the net. so again a new newbthread :oops:

  1. what are decals exactly and how to use them? i read many topics about it so now i have a guess what could it be, but im not sure. none of the topics were exacly about it, they only mentioned.

2)what is a corona and how to use it? (like info_null with spotlights? so just targetname and target?)

  1. how to export *.map files to *.md3? in some site i read but i guess its not true, that its impossible. i remember some methods i read in some tutorials some times ago covering similar topics but i cant find them now when i neeed it… most of the results in google was backwards conversion… also searched forum ofc

i need it coz a) i can check the vertex/tri/surface count of my models. (better than r_speeds ingame)
b)its needed if somebody wants to use my prefab as a moving escortable et c. item, not just as a stationary stuff.

========================================================

B./ my prefab is finished (or almost finished) (i hope :P), except the md3-ing.
here is a screenshot.
[im g]http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5697/stugscreendy3.png[/img]

i made the prefab only with radiant and gimp.
i host it temporarily here for download, because before i upload it to rtcw.filefront and etstuff, i want to be sure that its without major flaws. Lets consider it ver0.90
http://www.aaa3.freeweb.hu/notforreleaseyet.zip
in the final pack there will be a readme file with many details and some other stuff but now i host only the necessary. ok letmesee i wait some days and then i release it. (hehe my first thing)

p.s.: what other sites can u recommend me for uploading prefabs? (except the 2 above mentioned (returntocastl…filefront and enemyterr…stuff))
maybe i will do some others later, like an early T-34/76 tank… but now i will concentrate on my first map, almost sure that it will [edit] not [/edit; aaa3]be named rhine bridge 4, but its nothing to do with rb 2 nor 3, except ther idea and the feeling of those.

p.s.2.: who downloaded it from the above link, can pls give me some feedback about the dl speed? when i dl anything from there its fast but i want to know that from other countries/continents isnt it unacceptably slow? (this host markets itself that its unique among the local low end, free (=advert based) webspace hosts in that it is offers quite good international brandtwith, compared to its rivals ultraweb.hu and extra.hu. well idk if its true or not)

(Flippy) #2

  1. Don’t know much about them, but I think they are transparent images that you can paste onto existing brushes. For example, some writing on a wall is usually a decal. Only the text is visilbe and the rest of the texture is alpha-blended (invisible).
    I think you should apply the decal to a new brush that is made of nodraw texture, except for one face obviously. The texture should have a special shader command to avoid z-fighting (flickering).

  2. A corona is simply a light-flare. Just put it somewhere and look at it ingame. You don’t have to do anything else.
    You might have disabled corona’s though! Check the options (view menu probably) if you did…

  3. I had a map to md3 exporter once, but it didn’t work and I can’t find it anymore… sorry.

(aaa3) #3

ok ty very much :wink:
now im waiting for others who maybe add some things to map->md3 and may find some issues in my prefab, and site suggestions :d

(Flippy) #4

Rhine Bridge 4…
So there is a Rhine Bridge 1, 2 and 3? And did you make those? If you didn’t, I don’t think the maker of RB1 2 and 3 will be very happy with that!

(zenith-ply) #5

someone mentioned it already. but to expound i recall using an entityMergable shader command for track animations on one of my models that contained alpha textures. strange though because i would think that 3.7 polygonOffset would have been more necessary to hi-lite due to the function forcing rendering off the surface.

map->md3 if i am reading right NPherno’s md3 compiler can convert map->md3, although it has to be imported to the tool by converting the object into .ase first using special q3map2 commands and within 1024x1024 size limits. (because it melts down/crushes the .ase object if you don’t)

(aaa3) #6

ok then i wont. btw i just cant imagine why this is bad. i steal nothing from their maps. the name itself arent copyrighted (are they?)… and apart from law, maybe the problem is with me, i also cant see this ethically/morally bad. i see why its bad if i name it rhine bridge 1 2 or 3. but whats the problem with 4? i making clear that its not an alteration of those and has nothing to do with them except the background story and environment similarities. so im not misleading players.
well anyway i will search for another name…

@zenith-ply: i dont want any moveable/animated tracks nor wheels its making overcomplicated and i dont feel im able to do it. and i dont feel any need to do it. i only want the md3 for the whole tank itself to be able to move, without any animation.

(DerSaidin) #7
  1. A similar name like that implies the same person made it.
  2. The Author who made 1,2 & 3 might like to make a map to be 4.
(aaa3) #8

k i c now, ty much

original post edited

(DC9) #9

  1. from the Q3Map2 Wiki - "_decal

    • Specifies a decal to be projected. Should contain one or more patch meshes and target an info_null entity. The targetting line drawn between the center of the _decal entity and the targetted info_null is the axis and distance of projection. It helps to think of the _decal mesh as if it were a light gel, the info_null were the target of a spotlight, and that you were “shining” this decal onto map geometry."

Tutorial by donkey
http://www.map-craft.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=293&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

  1. again from the Q3Map2 Wiki -
    "Creating an .ase model out of brushwork
    1. First, create the geometry for your model.
    2. Cover your “model” completely with a block of caulk (give it a healthy margin of overlap in all 3 dimentions).
    3. Then, CSG “hollow” that block—Q3Map2 needs a barrier between your model and the void.
    4. Somewhere inside your world (as opposed to off in the weeds void), place an info_player_start entity. You will never actually spawn here, so don’t worry about “burying” your spawnpoint within your model geometry.
    5. Save this file as model.map (or whatever).
    6. Compile model.map with -v -meta -patchmeta -subdivisons 6 in the bsp phase (if your curves look too “low-fi” with -subdvisions 6, try 4 instead). There is no need to run -vis or -light. You should now have model.bsp in your “maps” directory.
    7. Compile model.bsp (not model.map, it should be noted) with -convert. You should now have model.ase in your “maps” directory.
    8. Create a new .map and place a misc_model entity. Give this misc_model entity the key/value pair “model”/“maps/model.ase”

Et voila! You’ve now got a misc_model created out of brushwork. Play with the “modelscale” and “angles” entity keys, and see why Q3Map2 .ase conversion is completely and totally great.

For extra moxie, import model.map as a prefab to your new map. Nuke the caulk box, select the rest of the “model” brushwork, and texture it with clip. Rotate these new clip brushes into place over your misc_model (assuming it has been rotated with angles… why else would you be converting to .ase, anyway); the brush vertexes of these clip brushes will get screwed up a bit, but since the player can’t see clip, you really can’t tell in-game. It’s lovely, and doesn’t have any of the ill effects of Q3Map2 autoclipping."

Alternatively, evillair wrote this process to create .map to .ase to md3 model.

Making a misc_gamemodel multiple section mesh, from bsp brushes
by: evillair

  1. Make a small boxmap with the walls textured with ‘caulk’.
  2. Add a info_player_deathmatch entity.
  3. Use the ‘caulk’ texture on any faces you don’t want in your model. (be advised that if you have a textured bsp face ontop of a cailked face that face will be removed.)
  4. Compile your map.
  5. Make a .bat file.
    (a .bat file is a .txt file rename to .bat)
    (change the directories to fit your setup)

Code:
@rem to use this batch file, drop a .map file on it or run it from a dos window:
@rem > compile <mapname>
@set Q3MAP_PATH=“D:\games oolz\GTKRadient-et\q3map2.exe”
@set ET_PATH=“D:\games\Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory”
@set MAP_PATH=“D:/games/Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory/etmain/maps/YOUR_BSP_OBJECT_NAME.bsp”
@set GEN_OPTIONS=-fs_basepath “D:\games\Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory” -game et
@rem
%Q3MAP_PATH% -convert %GEN_OPTIONS% -v %MAP_PATH%

  1. run the .bat file. (a new .ase file will be created with the name of your .bsp)
  2. Import your .ase into 3dsmax. (you’ll need to find a .ase import plugin)
  3. Weld your vetices and correctly apply the textures to your mesh. (use a Multi/Sub Object Material)
  4. Name you model in 3dsmax what you want the model to be.

In the material window;
10. [set number] to how many mat id’s you have.
11. Under [Name] add the name what you want for each id. (we need this to make a .skin file later, it will be used to reference the model parts)
12. Export your model to MD3. (do a search for ExportMD3.zip, I forgot the url, sorry)
13. Make a .skin file.
The .skin file is structured like this(I’m using my own .skin file as an example):

Code:
border,models/mapobjects/flakcannon/metal_m02_fk
fence,models/mapobjects/flakcannon/fence_02_fk

“border” is what you named the 1st model section in 3dsmax.
“fence” is what you named your 2nd model in 3dsmax (etc.)
“models/mapobjects/flakcannon/metal_m02_fk” is the texture you applied to that section. You can use a shader named this to add effects.

  1. In GTK Radient ET add a “misc_gamemodel”
  2. Select you newly made .md3.
    16 add the following key / value:
    skin / <Add path to your *.skin file>

I have used these methods to generate simple .ase models. The resulting models have been good enough for my needs.

EDIT: - I downloaded your file to take a look. Here are some comments:

  • the d/l was fast enough (sub-second);
  • this is a good model. You’ve done a good job with the brushwork and the overall texture scheme;
  • you probably should not include the “shaderlist.txt” file in your zip. Fortunately I checked the zip before I extracted the files to my development area. If I didn’t your shaderlist.text file would have over-written mine and I would have lost my list;
  • the models have caulk showing. Since these areas are not textured and are visible to the player, you can see through the models in sections when in game;
  • when compiling there are duplicate brush errors. I used bobtoolz - brush cleanup and it found 26 duplicate brushes;
  • the texture details are a bit blurry in game mode (not a big issue).

nice work.

(aaa3) #10

yes ty very much for the feedback happy happy happy; i know (and knew) about the caulk issue but i think deliverately leave it as now, though not sure.
yes its surely was a mistake to include my shaderlist i wont do so in the final.
about blurryness - i tested it in all tex detail levels and in low and med its awful. in high it is a little blurry but i found that enabling texture compression is effects greatly it (lowering quality and making details losing).
i found that in maxgraf (as i always have) and with no tex. comp. it is almost the same as in editor.

(a bug: if i devmap it with disabled tex.compr., it IS loading up with enabled tc. (also my autoexec isnt effects.) switching to enabled, waiting it loads itself, and then re-switching to disabled - solves the problem and then u have truly disabled tc.)

(aburn) #11

MD3 Export…

With all the textures (if you provided them - dunno didn’t check the link yet)
I can make the md3 for ya in 3ds Max.

It needs to be :

  • compiled into an ASE
  • imported to 3ds Max and than the verts need to be mounted (connected)…
  • UV mapping in 3ds

Finally Re-exported as md3…

Provided that you have 3ds Max, ASE importer for 3ds, and MD3 exporter for 3ds.

I will work on that if you want as soon as I finish some stuff with my maps alpha release.

CheerZ, aburn!

(Etnies) #12

Why not name your map Rhinebridge-Arnhem (the name of the place its in) or something like that, so that you get to keep the name and everyone will know its a different version purely from the name?

(zenith-ply) #13

@zenith-ply: i dont want any moveable/animated tracks nor wheels its making overcomplicated and i dont feel im able to do it. and i dont feel any need to do it. i only want the md3 for the whole tank itself to be able to move, without any animation.

thats fine. just relating to the decal portion as most decal textures contain the two shader functions i listed.

(aaa3) #14

ok i thinked in the past few days, and ty ur kindness aburn :drink: but i decided to do myself the modeling (pain pain pain :evil: ), maybe its best if i finish alone my first creation; i got a 3dsmax 9 also since last time.

and about the exporting, modeling, et c. stuff… i found some news and i will keep searching in the future too; lets discuss related stuff at
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=182603#182603

zenith-ply… can u link me a good tutorial about models&et… i took a look at ur kingtiger models and its so professional u implemented them in et… animated turrets, scripts, and many other stuff… i think im must very noob but i feel its far above my present skills to make such things…

(zenith-ply) #15

Thanks. The models have a lot of “why did I make all this?” features, but it was interesting to see if the large volumes could be done, that sort of thing. (also if anyone cares i fixed the tiger map, just havent updated the links at this forum yet)

I started just like you making brushwork and converting it to md3, but since this is about you not me, I can only tell you it depends on what modelling program you use. I used these links often as a quick refference.

The eclectic mix:

http://users.adelphia.net/~paposo/howdy.html -link is dead now but it (was) the tutorial for milkshape and rtcw/et models i used often.
http://ron.heavengames.com/library/articles/modelingtutorial/tutorial2.shtml for a skinning tutorial. (although it has nothing to do with et)
http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tagszp9ln.jpg -rough orientation of tags

(aaa3) #16

ty very much :drink: and the second (middle) link was very useful :beer: since i only today installed a modelling tool; and the used terms, key words, methods about modelling with such progs are so very different (and totally new) compared to work in radiant with brushes. btw my question was a bit aimed at, how to implement models to et, or with other words, the relationship between these (milkshape, max, maya, et c.) models and et and radiant itself.(all with scripts and other game and radiant specific stuff)

and this to everyone… since its so itching to release my stuff; and since its now clear that the finish of my model is not in the near future (i want a really useful and high quality prefab, not just a “learning project” which is good for nothing else), and since i got encouraged again (ty to everyone) to go back to work and implement some nice features… wouldnt be that good if i release (only) the final brushwork now and in which release i make clear that a model is coming?

it seems to wiser for me to wait till its done and release only 1 pack, but… to be wise is hard :stuck_out_tongue: and its so itching to eventually share it … and since here everybody is mapping or making projects, or developing stuff anyway, im sure u all know this feeling :smiley:

(zenith-ply) #17

Someone asked me this question before and I suggested reading tutorials (due to the unending amount of info one could type out), but I’m in an “i don’t care” mood right now so I’ll expound in very loose terms. This is not a tutorial! and i’m being really general so bear with me.

each model program has a type of export file or control file that allows you to export the model into its proper format, (.ase .md3), provided you input the correct data, texture paths (textures need to be power of 2, et is strict on this requirement) into the export file. (eg milkshape requires a .qc file to assign the paths of the textures related to each group or object in a single model. The texturing itself you do before the export phase an is usually done by a uv map program like lithunwrap. Each model (or object within each model, i think) should be 1k verts max or you should break each model up into pieces and export each one individualy or you will get an error in et (max verts iirc). once you have the model in its new format, you will need to assign a shader to each model or object/group within model, based on the texture paths assigned in the export/control file. (you will probably want to assign a shader in any case)

most models and the skins or textures should be placed in a model directory. et/main/models/mapobjects/your model and the shader for the model in et/main/scripts/yourmodel.shader. you should also type the yourmodel.shader in the shaderlist.txt file in scripts. when you load up radiant right click on the 2d view, select misc model or misc gamemodel and browse to your model and select. if you want the model to move, then should be used as a scriptmover entity.

http://www.wolfensteinx.com/surface/tutorials/et_simple_script_mover_p2.html

so in summary, the model progam allows you to create and skin the model and export in a file type the game can use. radiant basicly just allows you to select/use that model to be viewed in the game and whatever scripting functions you want to apply to it.

hopefully not too confusing.
:slight_smile:

(aaa3) #18

no its ok and ty. it was enough and good

thats why i only wanted some links/hints for places where its already written down; i didnt want u to write me down everything again; and i dont want to overstress u its already a very lot that u helped and wrote to make things clear. ty all, things are quite clear for me now; now i still need to learn a lot, the difference is that now i know what and where to do so