Are there any good guides out there or anyone who can explain how antilag and hitboxes in DB work?
What are considered “great”, “good”, “poor” and “unplayable” as far as ping in this game?
How is ping determined on the scoreboard? Is this an actual ICMP echo or something like “truePing” in ET where it judges the estimated ping based on the timestamps of actions occuring in-game?
Are there any FPS caps that change things like recoil reduction, movement distance or anything similar?
Is there any way to debug hitboxes, atleast in a private match? (I assume it can’t be used in matches that give rewards since it could be considered cheating)
Are there any useful network tweaks that would ensure you’re hitting your target when you should be? Meaning, sometimes you come across those players who are difficult to register hits on (ie: where you’re aiming you should be hitting them but you aren’t).
Does being hit more cause my hit prediction on an opponent to get worse?
Does being on a different height level in the map cause my hit prediction on an opponent to get worse?
Does FPS have any relation to mouse Hz in this game?
“Good” would be up to 50, “ok-ish” would be 100, poor is 150 and unplayable is 200+, I tend to find.
Not a clue. Splash Damage have never said, to my knowledge.
Nope! …this is a PC game
Debug hitboxes? How do you mean?
Hit-detection is client-side, so you will always hit things you can see.
There is very slight aim-punch, which could cause this, but I barely notice it honestly. I only really notice it on long range weapons like the REVIVR, sniper rifles and Grandeur.
I guess that’s more of a personal skill-based question, but in theory it could. It really depends how accurate you are personally.
I’ll give a bit more clarification from my point of view.
Faraleth is pretty spot on with this one.
Same with this one.
Not to my knowledge but I am no expert with UE3. I do know what you’re talking about however. The Q3 engine for a long time allowed certain jumps if you were capped at 125FPS that were more difficult if you got more or less FPS.
If you are asking about the ability to show the hitboxes similar to what you can do with console commands in CS then I think the only equivalent that I found was “showdebug hitbox” at console. However, I do not know if this is locked down by SD even for local games as I have not tried it.
Hit detection is mostly client-side and I don’t believe there are any network tweaks similar to Q3/CS that assists here. The server takes the info from your client and the info from the other client and mashes it together and then registers what actually happened. At lower pings this typically works out but at higher pings the window for this to happen is a bit stretched and you could get rollbacks. For example, you’re playing Vassili and have a 50 ping against somebody with 170 ping. On your side you registered a headshot dink and they should have died and the sound triggered but you ended up dying instead. De-syncs like this are an unfortunate side effect of this system. But the trade-off is you can play comfortably at higher pings as opposed to everyone needing ~30ms to compete properly.
Yes. There is flinching/aimpunch. It’s been severely reduced in the last few months but it’s still there. It will kick your crosshair around a bit and isn’t visual like in W:ET. It does snap back into place pretty quickly now though.
No.
No. UE3 can have some weird mouse quirks but I’ve had no issues with DB outside of when I first started playing (so defaults might have been changed for the better since then).
Hello! I just want to explain a situation and noticed lately and now knowing that hit detection is on the client side I going to explain my situation, and made some progress in the game -Im not expert :)-but already started to get headshots consistently, but sometimes I feel like shoot an enemy just does not get damge! and my performance drops considerably as if I had lost my ability to aim, I came to restart the game again and nos the headshots are back and I get consistent headshots… I dont know why this happen I play with a ping 60-50. Can be my PC, I have some problems with the game as it freezes for a few seconds… And al that
[quote=“Faraleth;110756”][list=1]
[] “Good” would be up to 50, “ok-ish” would be 100, poor is 150 and unplayable is 200+, I tend to find.
[] Not a clue. Splash Damage have never said, to my knowledge.
[] Nope! …this is a PC game
[] Debug hitboxes? How do you mean?
[] Hit-detection is client-side, so you will always hit things you can see.
[] There is very slight aim-punch, which could cause this, but I barely notice it honestly. I only really notice it on long range weapons like the REVIVR, sniper rifles and Grandeur.
[] I guess that’s more of a personal skill-based question, but in theory it could. It really depends how accurate you are personally.
[] Nope!
[/list]
Hope this helps ^.^[/quote]
Just like ET.
In the Quake3 engine there was a mathetical error made that allowed for further jumping in some games if you set the fps to 43, 71, 125 or 333. This was fixed later in Enemy Territory with something called fixedPhysicsFPS.
What I mean by debugging hitboxes is to display them around the character model so you can learn exactly where they are and how they react during movement and other in-game events.
Some players I’ve noticed are what we call “unhittable” in ET. Very few but they exist. What’s even funnier is one of the players I know from ET to be unhittable is also unhittable in dirty bomb. Friends agree, in both games.
This has nothing to do with personal accuracy. I’m asking if any kind of antilag or something in the game introduces an decreased accuracy level of hit detection on an opponent.
Thanks for the info :>
[quote=“Amerika;110829”]I’ll give a bit more clarification from my point of view.
Faraleth is pretty spot on with this one.
Same with this one.
Not to my knowledge but I am no expert with UE3. I do know what you’re talking about however. The Q3 engine for a long time allowed certain jumps if you were capped at 125FPS that were more difficult if you got more or less FPS.
If you are asking about the ability to show the hitboxes similar to what you can do with console commands in CS then I think the only equivalent that I found was “showdebug hitbox” at console. However, I do not know if this is locked down by SD even for local games as I have not tried it.
Hit detection is mostly client-side and I don’t believe there are any network tweaks similar to Q3/CS that assists here. The server takes the info from your client and the info from the other client and mashes it together and then registers what actually happened. At lower pings this typically works out but at higher pings the window for this to happen is a bit stretched and you could get rollbacks. For example, you’re playing Vassili and have a 50 ping against somebody with 170 ping. On your side you registered a headshot dink and they should have died and the sound triggered but you ended up dying instead. De-syncs like this are an unfortunate side effect of this system. But the trade-off is you can play comfortably at higher pings as opposed to everyone needing ~30ms to compete properly.
Yes. There is flinching/aimpunch. It’s been severely reduced in the last few months but it’s still there. It will kick your crosshair around a bit and isn’t visual like in W:ET. It does snap back into place pretty quickly now though.
No.
No. UE3 can have some weird mouse quirks but I’ve had no issues with DB outside of when I first started playing (so defaults might have been changed for the better since then).[/quote]
Yep, that’s what I want. I’ll check it out, thanks.
I prefer people of higher ping suffering more. There’s a reason why there are servers in every area. I don’t think people should receive advantages because they have higher ping. It’s not anyone else’s fault they chose to play on a server where they get high ping. This also opens up a window for abusing network diagnostic tools for introducing artificial packet dropping, throttling, added delay and more.
Again I’m not really talking about a game mechanic but more about an inherent “antilag drawback”. But this was answered when you guys answered question 5 :).
I have a good friend from Australia who plays with my American friends and I sometimes and he seems to do fine and I can hit him pretty well. His ping is in the low 200s usually on west servers and a little higher on east.
That’s the thing. I live in the middle of the US but I can play on a lot of EU servers without too much issue (ping is about 127). If the game worked like Q3 I’d be at a severe disadvantage once my ping started crossing north of 30ms (with the LG specifically) and at a huge disadvantage when I got to 80+ with all weapons. The way DB does it’s netcode allows people from geographically large areas to play with/against each other. There are some drawbacks but typically as long as a person has a smooth connection regardless of ping it’s fairly good for everyone involved. It’s only when you start getting people with high ping + packet loss or highly fluctuating pings is where you get issues. But that’s a problem in every game and there isn’t a magic wand to fix that. If the netcode worked the way you want then your Australian friend would never be able to play with you.
So you either make a highly separated playerbase using server side netcode or you do a hybrid of full client side netcode and let people play with higher pings against each other but, again, with the few potential drawbacks (more likely to die after you’ve passed a corner as well). It’s a pick your poison situation but personally I like not having to worry as much about my ping. Not everyone will agree with that however and that’s fine.
[quote=“Amerika;110883”]That’s the thing. I live in the middle of the US but I can play on a lot of EU servers without too much issue (ping is about 127). If the game worked like Q3 I’d be at a severe disadvantage once my ping started crossing north of 30ms (with the LG specifically) and at a huge disadvantage when I got to 80+ with all weapons. The way DB does it’s netcode allows people from geographically large areas to play with/against each other. There are some drawbacks but typically as long as a person has a smooth connection regardless of ping it’s fairly good for everyone involved. It’s only when you start getting people with high ping + packet loss or highly fluctuating pings is where you get issues. But that’s a problem in every game and there isn’t a magic wand to fix that. If the netcode worked the way you want then your Australian friend would never be able to play with you.
So you either make a highly separated playerbase using server side netcode or you do a hybrid of full client side netcode and let people play with higher pings against each other but, again, with the few potential drawbacks (more likely to die after you’ve passed a corner as well). It’s a pick your poison situation but personally I like not having to worry as much about my ping. Not everyone will agree with that however and that’s fine.
Yeah I’ve noticed I die more often around corners in this game than any I’ve played. I don’t recall any major issues with pings in 80s or 120s in quake games. It seems like 150 was the “highest acceptable ping” but was a little annoying to play with and anything past that was, for me, unacceptable. Some people preferred anything over 200 as unacceptable. Though of all the Quake games I’ve played it’s been mostly ET
It does seem interesting the way this is setup and I do enjoy the generally good hitboxes in the game. This was one of the first things I noticed when playing db, that on average my hits count when they should count.
I’ve tried the local map thing and the characters. Some of the characters didn’t seem to give me the correct weapons/abilities and the commands for spawning those abilities don’t seem to work anymore.
Before DB, I played both tribes and chivalry (both based on UE3) where there were fps caps. On chivalry, unlocking the 120 fps cap was a known speed hack, both in character and animation speeds, which is very problematic in a melee game with timing being a massive factor in every fight. I played against someone who unlocked it for testing purposes and you couldnot block any attack from him nor hit him easily… I’d be interested to know how they manage to get over this kind of barrier in DB, because UE3 seem to be strongly affected by 120/150+ framerate.
There’s no proper improvements possible from the client’s side of the process in UE3. I had a couple of tweaks on chivalry but they can be neglected overall. On the server’s side, on the other hand, improved tickrate makes a tremendous difference, probably more noticeable than in source engine games from my point of view. Currently all servers seem to set around 40 and usually work with less :(. I really hope they’ll try to improve it to somewhere like 60/70. Two downsides though : It requires more powerful servers as well as better broadband (thus less server for the same money amount, which is important for official server’s case), and it tends to generate more warps for high pingers if set way too high than necessary. Currently their position is to allow intercontinental playing at the cost of inconsistencies in the majority of usual situations… That’s a choice, I respect that.
I see more and more animations getting totally missed by servers recently. I had a dude reviving me with his crotzni a couple weeks ago. His weapon switch did not get registered, fired full auto on me from my screen and then I got fully revived… This kind of thing, or melee weapon switch or hits not being registered in the same way.
I’ve found this to not be accurate in many instances, even with low ping. I even have a recording of one of my sticky bombs getting stuck and then suddenly teleporting on the far side just as if it had missed. It’s very random and depends on lag compensation, which quite frankly needs a rework in this game.
[quote=“B. Montiel;110902”][quote=“sneak;20307”]
3. Are there any FPS caps that change things like recoil reduction, movement distance or anything similar?
[/quote]
Before DB, I played both tribes and chivalry (both based on UE3) where there were fps caps. On chivalry, unlocking the 120 fps cap was a known speed hack, both in character and animation speeds, which is very problematic in a melee game with timing being a massive factor in every fight. I played against someone who unlocked it for testing purposes and you couldnot block any attack from him nor hit him easily… I’d be interested to know how they manage to get over this kind of barrier in DB, because UE3 seem to be strongly affected by 120/150+ framerate.
There’s no proper improvements possible from the client’s side of the process in UE3. I had a couple of tweaks on chivalry but they can be neglected overall. On the server’s side, on the other hand, improved tickrate makes a tremendous difference, probably more noticeable than in source engine games from my point of view. Currently all servers seem to set around 40 and usually work with less :(. I really hope they’ll try to improve it to somewhere like 60/70. Two downsides though : It requires more powerful servers as well as better broadband (thus less server for the same money amount, which is important for official server’s case), and it tends to generate more warps for high pingers if set way too high than necessary. Currently their position is to allow intercontinental playing at the cost of inconsistencies in the majority of usual situations… That’s a choice, I respect that.
I see more and more animations getting totally missed by servers recently. I had a dude reviving me with his crotzni a couple weeks ago. His weapon switch did not get registered, fired full auto on me from my screen and then I got fully revived… This kind of thing, or melee weapon switch or hits not being registered in the same way. [/quote]
Good because I can get in the 400s…
Are you referring to the equivalent of “snaps” from quake?
Yup, especially when the server is getting bad (which happen often right now sadly), tickrate worsen as well and sometimes it seems to totally forget some client instructions, and it won’t show them to others.
Yeah I’ve noticed I die more often around corners in this game than any I’ve played. I don’t recall any major issues with pings in 80s or 120s in quake games. It seems like 150 was the “highest acceptable ping” but was a little annoying to play with and anything past that was, for me, unacceptable. Some people preferred anything over 200 as unacceptable. Though of all the Quake games I’ve played it’s been mostly ET
It does seem interesting the way this is setup and I do enjoy the generally good hitboxes in the game. This was one of the first things I noticed when playing db, that on average my hits count when they should count.
I’ve tried the local map thing and the characters. Some of the characters didn’t seem to give me the correct weapons/abilities and the commands for spawning those abilities don’t seem to work anymore.
There is some dying around the corner but not as much as you’d think. I record pretty much everything. And I’ve looked at this and I have a few examples of when the rollback got crazy and I definitely died around a corner. However, the game keeps body/player momentum sometimes, so you’ll still feel like your moving around that corner and not dead but it’s really your momentum and you were killed before you went around the corner…just you recognizing it isn’t always on point. If you slow down video enough you see where you “died” and where the game sort of lets you start knowing, visually, that you died. So dying around a corner happens but it’s not nearly as frequent as some people believe. Unless you have high fluctuating ping or packet loss which also causes this…and netcode will not fix this.
And I’d agree with the hitboxes. I’ve also slowed down video on a lot of shots to see just how on-point they are, since it’s hard to tell while you are playing or at full speed, and it’s pretty impressive overall. Sure, there are hiccups. I have a video where there is a Nader I clearly shot in the back of the head with a Moa that didn’t take any damage at all. But all online games have errors like that and I don’t feel as though that happens often. My opinion though and others might feel differently. I just think DB registers hits better than almost any other game I’ve ever played despite other issues with the servers and such which is apparently a very big problem in Europe that isn’t nearly as much of an issue here in the states.
My experience has been if there is another player with a ping above 100+ the whole game goes to shit as far as hit detection goes, I will even go as far to say if a ruskie with 50> but <100 ping joins the game goes to shit, I notice this in all games not just Dirty Bomb, BF3 Being the worst offender from my playtime on PC.
Everyone seems harder to take down in those circumstances, There should be a max ping of 50 for regional servers, but that’s my opinion. Hopefully if server renting ever becomes a thing that is what I will do.
Also to answer no.3, when i tried recording on the cpu with a fps cap of 60 the game did feel a bit weird when moving and shooting, probably because it wasn’t vsync but software capped (with dxtory) so I couldn’t honestly tell you if FPS really affects anything, but thought i would chime in and let you know I did feel a difference. Probably just feeling more input lag as even though i only have a 60hz panel, there is some creamy dreamy feels when running above 100fps xD
The biggest thing I can’t stand, and I don’t know if its lag compensation, client side detection, etc. But it’s player models / guns not reflecting what the player is actually doing. Being perpendicular to a player (facing their side) while they shoot me but it looks like they are facing 90° away from me.
Actually seeing what the player is doing is a massive part of dodging, and when its completely inaccurate its frustrating.
[quote=“3N1GM4;111008”]The biggest thing I can’t stand, and I don’t know if its lag compensation, client side detection, etc. But it’s player models / guns not reflecting what the player is actually doing. Being perpendicular to a player (facing their side) while they shoot me but it looks like they are facing 90° away from me.
Actually seeing what the player is doing is a massive part of dodging, and when its completely inaccurate its frustrating.[/quote]
This happens in most if not all online games I have ever played…ever. Not even kidding.
[quote=“3N1GM4;111008”]The biggest thing I can’t stand, and I don’t know if its lag compensation, client side detection, etc. But it’s player models / guns not reflecting what the player is actually doing. Being perpendicular to a player (facing their side) while they shoot me but it looks like they are facing 90° away from me.
Actually seeing what the player is doing is a massive part of dodging, and when its completely inaccurate its frustrating.[/quote]
It can be both due to lag compensation or server’s tickrate being too low.
Yes it happens in every online game and it’s logical, as the emitting client can not provide continuous positioning, orientation and animations. Hence the whole tickrate thing. Both the server and receiving clients interpolates all the time to recreate something continuous at the end.
And to be quite clear, that is something I’ve never experienced to this extent in any other UE3 based game.
[quote=“SiegeFace;110924”]My experience has been if there is another player with a ping above 100+ the whole game goes to shit as far as hit detection goes, I will even go as far to say if a ruskie with 50> but <100 ping joins the game goes to shit, I notice this in all games not just Dirty Bomb, BF3 Being the worst offender from my playtime on PC.
Everyone seems harder to take down in those circumstances, There should be a max ping of 50 for regional servers, but that’s my opinion. Hopefully if server renting ever becomes a thing that is what I will do.
Also to answer no.3, when i tried recording on the cpu with a fps cap of 60 the game did feel a bit weird when moving and shooting, probably because it wasn’t vsync but software capped (with dxtory) so I couldn’t honestly tell you if FPS really affects anything, but thought i would chime in and let you know I did feel a difference. Probably just feeling more input lag as even though i only have a 60hz panel, there is some creamy dreamy feels when running above 100fps xD[/quote]
The ping of other players doesn’t affect your connection to the server, this is literally impossible. That’s not the way ping works. A max ping of 50 would not work out so well, for many reasons. I don’t think this will ever happen.
I’ve been capping 200fps and minfps at 180 and I run 100Hz on my monitor. Works out great for me.
[quote=“sneak;20307”]Are there any good guides out there or anyone who can explain how antilag and hitboxes in DB work?
What are considered “great”, “good”, “poor” and “unplayable” as far as ping in this game?
How is ping determined on the scoreboard? Is this an actual ICMP echo or something like “truePing” in ET where it judges the estimated ping based on the timestamps of actions occuring in-game?
Are there any FPS caps that change things like recoil reduction, movement distance or anything similar?
Is there any way to debug hitboxes, atleast in a private match? (I assume it can’t be used in matches that give rewards since it could be considered cheating)
Are there any useful network tweaks that would ensure you’re hitting your target when you should be? Meaning, sometimes you come across those players who are difficult to register hits on (ie: where you’re aiming you should be hitting them but you aren’t).
Does being hit more cause my hit prediction on an opponent to get worse?
Does being on a different height level in the map cause my hit prediction on an opponent to get worse?
Does FPS have any relation to mouse Hz in this game?
[/quote]
Great 1-40, good 40-80, poor 90-140. Unplayable anything above 140 if you’re not used to it, projectiles and throwables become very wonky.
ICMP
No
Sort of, yes. But not to the extend you’re thinking: ‘showdebug hitbox’ can be used in combination with merc spawning (‘switchlevel randomstring’ to have a dummy of your last used merc remain in the game - local only)
No. There are network tweaks, however those should be locked - recent patch unlocked them for no apparent reason (bug?) - that will make you warp, a lot. Otherwise they have no real effect. As for the “client-side hitdetection”, this is mostly true, however the server does validate your shots. While you hit what you see, the server still needs to verify that you actually hit. It acts within a 150-200ms “buffer region” to emulate an antilag behavior, this, in my opinion: Is way too much leeway and is the majority cause of the kill trading and other shenanigans in this game. The game should not be “optimized” towards international play, but rather within a region. You will never find ping differences exceeding a 100 within a region - really, they should and could lower this value.
Other than aimpunch, theoretically no
Yes. As in any game, hitboxes are affected by angles. Also merc sizes, while “smaller” mercs (kira, sparks, proxy, aura) are generally thought to have smaller hit boxes: they don’t. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsUmR8qnZ4
No.
Additionally, to 5. server registration and performance is awful. They tend to perform amazingly and exceptionally well within a day or few hours of a maintenance (read: servers physically being restarted), however will go to shit soon after and is very noticeable. This has been an issue since forever and, everyone is pretty much in agreement over it, but apparently us players are all just paranoid and making things up.
[quote=“fubar;111123”][quote=“sneak;20307”]Are there any good guides out there or anyone who can explain how antilag and hitboxes in DB work?
What are considered “great”, “good”, “poor” and “unplayable” as far as ping in this game?
How is ping determined on the scoreboard? Is this an actual ICMP echo or something like “truePing” in ET where it judges the estimated ping based on the timestamps of actions occuring in-game?
Are there any FPS caps that change things like recoil reduction, movement distance or anything similar?
Is there any way to debug hitboxes, atleast in a private match? (I assume it can’t be used in matches that give rewards since it could be considered cheating)
Are there any useful network tweaks that would ensure you’re hitting your target when you should be? Meaning, sometimes you come across those players who are difficult to register hits on (ie: where you’re aiming you should be hitting them but you aren’t).
Does being hit more cause my hit prediction on an opponent to get worse?
Does being on a different height level in the map cause my hit prediction on an opponent to get worse?
Does FPS have any relation to mouse Hz in this game?
[/quote]
Great 1-40, good 40-80, poor 90-140. Unplayable anything above 140 if you’re not used to it, projectiles and throwables become very wonky.
ICMP
No
Sort of, yes. But not to the extend you’re thinking: ‘showdebug hitbox’ can be used in combination with merc spawning (‘switchlevel randomstring’ to have a dummy of your last used merc remain in the game - local only)
No. There are network tweaks, however those should be locked - recent patch unlocked them for no apparent reason (bug?) - that will make you warp, a lot. Otherwise they have no real effect. As for the “client-side hitdetection”, this is mostly true, however the server does validate your shots. While you hit what you see, the server still needs to verify that you actually hit. It acts within a 150-200ms “buffer region” to emulate an antilag behavior, this, in my opinion: Is way too much leeway and is the majority cause of the kill trading and other shenanigans in this game. The game should not be “optimized” towards international play, but rather within a region. You will never find ping differences exceeding a 100 within a region - really, they should and could lower this value.
Other than aimpunch, theoretically no
Yes. As in any game, hitboxes are affected by angles. Also merc sizes, while “smaller” mercs (kira, sparks, proxy, aura) are generally thought to have smaller hit boxes: they don’t. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsUmR8qnZ4
No.
Additionally, to 5. server registration and performance is awful. They tend to perform amazingly and exceptionally well within a day or few hours of a maintenance (read: servers physically being restarted), however will go to shit soon after and is very noticeable. This has been an issue since forever and, everyone is pretty much in agreement over it, but apparently us players are all just paranoid and making things up. [/quote]
4 .Oh okay so it’s basically a ghetto version of testing the hitboxes by trying to switch to a map that doesn’t exist which just spawns you as a clone. I remember seeing a video like that once, hadn’t considered this idea. It won’t show everything a hitbox would but it would be useful.
I wasn’t specifically referring to dirtybomb network tweaks, in-fact I was mainly talking about tweaks I can make in my own computer’s registry or my router. I’m not looking for anything to make myself unhittable and I’ve already gone through alot of trouble trying to stop people from doing this in ET. I just want my good shots to count, because I aim pretty well and it’s frustrating when they don’t. I basically want to optimize whatever I can to ensure I’m getting fair judgement of my shots. Yeah, if this is true about the 150-250 ms antilag that’s excessive. It especially makes no sense when you consider they have West, East and Aus servers.
This topic of UE3 hitboxes based on height and width of the player model has been discussed countless times in games like TERA and Smite. I’ve seen so many videos and read so many articles on this stuff. It seems like people are all over the place on this topic. Regarding the video, he was very close, meaning the distance he was from the targets may have been affecting what it looks like when he shoots above them. Maybe the angle at which he was shooting caused this? Maybe if he were to back up and test it again this wouldn’t happen… or it would happen exactly the same but look different because of perspective change at another distance…
